Talk:Petera

This entry maybe should be brought into line with other national entries, format wise. -gm

Cleared old talk page. Check history if really interested. -Slitherrr

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So this is referred to here and on the map as "Petera", and the adjective is sometimes said to be "Peteran", but a couple of articles have referred to "Petra" and "Petran", or "Petara" and "Petaran". Is it safe to assume that "Petera" and "Peteran" are canonical (flavor element of misspellings aside)? -Slitherrr

I tried to define a canonical spelling by choosing a single name and a single valid link, but I see you went and ruined that plan ;) --Msallen

Yeah, I got into the redirects before I knew what I was getting into. -Slitherrr

PS. GM likes the confusing lack of spelling consistency

consistent spelling is an anachronism.

Additionally, don't forget to account for regional spelling variances. -gm, probably

Note: Wikis are an anachronism. -Slitherrr

Religious tolerance of Peteran Heresy?

How tolerant are Mainlanders day-to-day of Peteran Heresy religion? Are they generally accepting and on good terms (for day-to-day Mainlanders) or do they view them as blasphemers? Any real-world analogies? I can tell the churches themselves are opposed (i.e. "Peteran Heresy" name), but how does that translate into day-to-day relationships for (a) citizens of the countries and (b) members of the church? -Mattie

Well, at the highest levels, there's kind of a policy of "Mutual Coexistance," as both Greater Alexandriandom and the Petaran's are both entrenched enough to prevent annihilation. Sure, the population, economy, and geographic size of the mainland is like 10x that of Petara, the mainland has a lot more infighting and cultural divisions that prevent working together.

That said, if someone started preaching Petaranism, creating Favored Souls, etc. there would be a pretty quick and savage breakdown. Real-world analogies? I guess look anywhere that Greater Islam shared a border with Christendom and see what happened. -gm

What about day-to-day sorts of things? If a Peteran boy had no choice but to go to a Mainland school, would he (a) be forbidden, (b) allowed but ostracized by most students and teachers, (c) only be teased a lot by other kids (specifically for having a different religion), or (d) not really be noticed/teased more than any other transplant to a new school?

For my own sake, I'm trying to understand the average sentiment between Mainlanders and Peterans. Should Mose/Kimika (at least) have been distant/skeptical regarding Quinalin early on because of the church differences? Or is it a religious difference that doesn't affect day-to-day dispositions very much? (No rush on the answer, just curious.) -Mattie

I don't see any point in running down every extreme and virtually impossible hypothetical. What would happen to an Arab orphan in Paris? He'd go to a Christian orphanage, and from there, who knows? It's up to the kid, I guess. "Day to Day" interaction doesn't really exist on 90% of the mainland. FWIW, Quin is *not* a Petaran himself, he is Alexandrian by faith and Celstian by nationality, and his knowledge of their ways comes from the close relationships his father developed while trading. -gm

Thanks for the clarification on Quin, that makes the point moot. I don't care about specific situations (beyond our own), but you responded initially about the high-level church's position and not the day-to-day as I had sought, so I provided an example to help get the gist of what I want to know. There's a big difference between "they are stoned on the street in most cities" and "they're welcomed and respected". The former is hinted with just the notion of calling it "Peteran Heresy" and having a Mainland with only one religion. Anyway, sorry-- just wanted some day-to-day sentiment clarification. If Quin isn't Peteran by religion then it's not very important unless we run into more of them. -Mattie

Ha! Don't be sorry, I actually LOVE questions like this, because it gives me way to flush out and expand the world along the lines of player curiosity without having to randomly dump data into wiki pages people may or may not care about. So: canon questions are GOOD! -gm

We're not at stoning in the street levels, at the very least. Certainly, merchants like Kathkallan demonstrate that Petrans are tolerated in the mainland and allowed to travel, conduct businesses, and be treated with general respect. Using that as an example, the authorities are more likely to turn a blind eye to ripping off or discriminating against a Petran, but not to the point where outright aggression and abuse of the law is tolerated. It's probably also region-by-region, though, and a generally lawless and sacreligious community like Wydmoor might be more tolerant than, say, the more devout areas of rural flannary. --Msallen

I think that's a pretty good takeaway, yeah. Again, a Petaran merchant isn't going to be too hassled, but you're only going to find such a creature in Celstia or maybe Wydmoor, the only places on the mainland the Petarans really trade. Racism, bigotry, even ignorant violence are all potentials for a Petaran in the mainland, but there is no institutionalized need for genocide or anything. But, again, someone tries to set up a Petaran church, there's going to be swift retribution. -gm

Do Flannari merchants use their southern border along the edge of heretic's bay for trading? If so, I would imagine there is some limited tolerance for Petrans in southern Flannary (although I would also guess, given the mountain range, there is a significant cultural divide between that strip of land and the rest of Flannary). I am under the impression that Odessa is engaged in some sort of unending naval conflict with Petra, but I don't know where I got that impression, so it may be totally invalid. Is there some penetration of Petran merchants in Odessa? --Msallen

I could see that, yeah. In fact, since this is Proto-France, it's pretty easy to imagine one mega important city and thousands of square miles of fuck all. I imagine that area of southern flannary probably has like 40% of the total population in the one big city (capital) and it's satellites, and all that shit in the interior is mostly villages It also explains why the contested provinces with Fresia are a contest at all instead of a strong, wealthy, and unified Flannary steamrolling a decentralized and infighting Fresia: it's basically the Flannari frontier. Additionally, we can imagine that southern area - southwest of the FuckityDick River (needs a new name, obvs)is a lot more worldly and cosmopolitan than the basically ignorant peasantry of the interior. Good catch. I would expect that the Odessan navy doesn't really fuck with the Petarans on the Heretic Sea (which is shoal infested, island heavy, and very treacherous, putting the Odessan's relatively large fleet at a comparative disadvantage. The Odessan navy IS, however, powerful enough to prevent the Petarans from even bothering to create anything beyond a small raider and trader flotilla. So, you're not entirely wrong - there isn't outright war, per se, so much that the Petarans have conceded control of the Seas to the Odessans.

A little bit of cross-ref shows us that the Odessans have been big shit, one way or the other, pretty much always. We also notice that the ill fated Barbannan family - as in Barbannan's Crusade - are Odessan. That was almost 1,000 years ago, but I can't see any reason that any prior animosity would have abated over-much. So, yeah, we can safely say that Odessans and Petarans probably despise one another. Celstians and Petarans get along quite well, not only because of their mutual hatred of the Odessans, but because the Petaran and Celstian people have a relatively close relationship, hinted at by the Ebony Reaver's backstory. The Petaran royals gave a lot of indirect support to the Celstian Revolution, which might actually be where the animosity between Odessa and Petara finds it's ultimate genesis. Also, the Celstians are barely Alexandrian anyway by the reckoning of some. Flannary probably has some, but lesser, trade contact with Petara on account of the whole "Flannary is huge and centrally located and pretty much self supporting" thing they have going on.

As to that mountain range and cultural divide, I go back to the whole Center of Culture thing. It seems that if that interior is mostly agrarian fiefs, then they're producing a mess of grain that then travels towards that central river, which seems like it would be huge and rather tranquil, which would act as a sort of central highway (see also "The Nile & Ancient Egypt"). I imagine the grain all goes down (or up? only you know the flow direction) the river to that central lake, where there is probably decent sized trading town - I imagine run directly by the crown - where ALL the grain is bought up. Since I expect the river is basically unpassable going through those mountains, we can assume that the Flannary probably have carved out a huge road going over that mountain, probably well traveled and well fortified and also owned by the crown. Non crown people probably even have to pay a fucking toll. It can then go on a leisurely barge ride down the second river and to the capital, where the crown then can directly sell it the rest of the world. Since Flannary pretty much produces food, and since the food is all bought up by the crown one the cheap side of the mountains, we can see why the Flannary have only one big city and why the King reigns as an almost absolute monarch. The nobles basically depend on the crown for all of their income. Which is, come to think of it, why they also live in the Capital almost exclusively rather than on their estates.

FWIW, as a total aside, I think this is part of the reason I've complied the Wiki, et al, in such a slapdash and random manner. It let's me practice real fake history, using fuzzy data to bring clarity to obscurity.

Is this canon?

According to Electronic Arts:

Heh, I noticed that when I played the Sims Medieval, too. -gm