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Last of the Omatachi

2011-09-28T18:57:16Z

96.5.63.21:

CREATION

All characters are built using the Pathfinder point buy system with 25 points. They start with, and gain, maximum hit dice for every level. (This applies to class-bearing level enemies, as well) Initial builds must be human, though any core or base class is acceptable. The player may take ONE flaw, and may choose any eligible feat if he or she does so. This bonus feat can even be the Natural Talent wild talent variant. The flaw may be bought off as per the rules listed, with one exception: since we are starting as level 2 characters, the flaw will not drop off until 5th level at the earliest, even if the prerequisites are fulfilled before that time. The player may not take any traits unless they are acquired by the "More Traits" feat

Initial build characters begin at 2nd level, and have 1000 gp to spend on starting equipment - although no more than 600 gold may be spent on a single item. All gold does not have to be spent: any gold not spent you may keep as hard specie to spend later as needed.

LANGUAGES

Instead of "Common," all characters start with "Omatachi." This is a language that literally nobody will be able to understand except you guys, so there is probably an advantage in that. Additional languages may only be monster tongues. When you guys encounter the common tongue, or those of demihumans, you might get some time to learn them. This is a game of discovery, so you the decision for everyone to be as information poor as possible at the beginning is a conscious design decision.

THE OMATACHI

You are one of the Omatachi, a small but ancient group whose oral histories go back many thousands of years. Your people originally came to this land across the Blue Saltplains, riding horses made of wood, and settled in the Summerlands. The people of the Summerlands, however, had already divided up the world amongst themselves into great kingdoms and no love was given to your people and no respect was accorded to their ways. For generations, your people were pushed further and further into the wild and frontierlands of the world, where they continued to encounter settled peoples and entrenched cultures that refused the Omatachi aid or comfort. Further generations forced the Omatachi from the frontierlands into the deep and wild places of the world, where they were finally able to settle for good. In the centuries since, the isolated but talented Omatachi people have prospered, if not exactly thrived, on the edge of world. Only the Sledge People of the Ice Wall to the south live in harsher conditions, and as such, the Omatachi have become a hardy and disciplined people. While some trade is conducted with small tribes and a network of small and distant villages for steel and crafts, the Omatachi people have been content to remain relatively self-sufficient and isolated. Therefore, tales of the Omatachi have largely disappeared from the world at large, as has Omatachi understandings of the world they left behind. However, the Omatachi have hung on to many of their old ways, and somewhat compensate for this by possess skills and understandings absent from civilization proper.

WHAT IS KNOWN

You live in a great and expansive wilds. It is often cold and not often pleasant. Your people are simple, if not exactly primitive, and live in a small walled settlement that serves as a nexus for Omatachi trade, society, and defense. The Omatachi subsist largely as hunters and gatherers, although simple tuber, squash, and beans agriculture provides the nutritional stability required to survive the long and harsh winters in the arboreal forests at the edge of the Fields of Ice. You are a young apprentice or relatively inexperienced assistant in or around this settlement as our game begins. Your backstory is relatively unremarkable, and you have no dark secrets or powerful fetters. Your religion is a simple one that revolves around ancestor veneration, although most of the surrounding people the Omatachi trade with practice some form of animist spirit worship. There is a small group of ANTINOMIANS that also exist among your people, who practice a monastic martial tradition brought by the Omatachi from their ancient homeland. Although these antinomians generally share Omatachi ancestor worship traditions, they do not accept any law or moral authority beyond the simple but strict code of their order, and so are often viewed as chaotic and unpredictable troublemakers rather than being understood as deeply lawful and meditative aestetics who see themselves as having transcended societal norms.

THE SUMMERLANDS

The most powerful area of civilization is a huge area called the Summerlands by your people. It was on the shores of the Summerlands that your people arrived in this land thousands of years ago. Not all of the people of the Summerlands are human, though most still are. It is here that the great empires and petty kingdoms of the world can be found, though much of it is still dominated by monsters and other vile and evil creatures. It has been thousands of years since the Omatachi have bothered with the Summerlands in any real way, and its many hundreds of miles away, so working knowledge of the place is pretty much zero. Someone will probably have to learn some languages eventually.

The Summerlanders to the north follow a simple pantheon of about a dozen gods. These gods don't generally have proper names, but rather have names more like titles or job descriptions as the gods of the Summerlands stand only for broad concepts and archetypes as befitting a broad tent religion that has to appeal to a variety of races and cultures. Most Omatachi obviously don't know a hell of a lot about it beyond that, although most at least know the two major evil gods of this pantheon because they'll pop up every now and then when they've been run out of their homes and show up in your neighborhood causing problems. They are:

E1. The Grinning Skull
Symbol: Guess.
DOMAINS:
Death, Destruction, Evil, Magic, Undeath, Hatred

E2. The Dark Binder
Symbol: A Black Book, Open (sometimes there is one of a variety of different symbols inside of the book)
DOMAINS:
Evil, Knowledge, Magic, Air, Animal, Earth, Plant, Water, Storm

NoName the Second

2011-09-28T18:28:02Z

96.5.63.21: /* Flaw */

Oracle Favored Class

Oracle 2

==Attributes==

===Primary===
{|
|Strength || 14 (+2)
|-
|Dexterity || 12 (+1)
|-
|Constitution || 16 (+3)
|-
|Intelligence || 10 (--)
|-
|Wisdom || 9 (-1)
|-
|Charisma || 16 (+3)
|}

===Secondary===
{|
|Hit Points ||  || 22 ||  || 8 + 2 + 1 + 8 + 2 + 1
|-
|Armor Class |||| 19 |||| 10 +1 Dex +6 Breastplate +2 Heavy Shield (Additional +4 vs. Giant-type)
|-
|Base Attack Bonus |||| +1
|-
|Initiative |||| +1
|-
|Base Speed |||| 15 ft. (Oracle's Curse: Lame)
|-
|Fort Save |||| +3 |||| +0 Oracle, +3 stat
|-
|Reflex |||| +1 |||| +0 Oracle, +1 Stat
|-
|Will Save |||| +2 |||| +3 Oracle, -1 Stat
|}

*Combat Maneuver Bonus : +3 = +1 BaB + 2 Str
*Combat Maneuver Defense : 14 = 10 +1 BaB + 2 Str + 1 Dex

== Combat ==
*Masterwork Warhammer
** +5 = +1 BaB +2 Str +1 Masterwork +1 Weapon Focus
** Damage: 1d8+2 (20/x3)

*Concentration Check : (+11) = 2 Caster Level + 3 Charisma Mod + 4 Combat Casting + 2 Concentration Trait

==Feats and Abilities==

=== Class ===
* Mystery : Battle
* Curse : Lame
* Revelations : (2nd) Weapon Mastery

=== Racial ===
* Slow and Steady (No Encumber Penalties)
* Darkvision (60 Feet)
* Defensive Training (+4 AC vs. Giant-type)
* Greed (+2 Appraise non-magical metal and gems)
* Hardy (+2 Save vs. Poison, Spell, Spell-Like)
* Hatred (+1 to hit orcs and goblinoinds)
* Stability (+4 CMD vs. Trips and Bull Rush when standing)
* Stonecutting (+2 Perception vs. Stonework, Traps, Secret Doors)
* Weapon Familiarity (Dwarf Weapons treated as Martial)

=== Feats ===
*Level 1: Combat Casting (+4 Concentration in Combat)
*Flaw Feat: More Traits
**Courageous (+2 Save vs. Fear)
**Focused Mind (+2 Concentration Checks)
*Class Mystery Feat: Weapon Focus - Warhammer
*Class Proficiency (Weapon): Simple
*Class Proficiency (Armor): Light, Medium

=== Flaw ===
* Provincial
**Penalty: The character suffers a -1 penalty to Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nobility), and Knowledge (local) when outside a 50-mile-radius of their home.
**Buying Off the Flaw: The character must place 5 skill points in a Knowledge skill other than Knowledge (local). This flaw cannot be removed before 5th level, even if enough skill points are spent before.

===Languages===
*Ubrekti (B)
*Dwarven (I)

B=birth language
I=intel point language
S=skill point language

==Skills==
8 Skill Points to Spend
* Diplomacy : +7 = 1 Rank + 3 Chr + 3 Class Skill
* Intimidate : +7 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill + 3 Chr
* Knowledge (History) : +4 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill
* Knowledge (Religion) : +4 = 1 Rank + 3 class Skill
* Perception : +3 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill - 1 Wis
* Sense Motive : +3 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill -1 Wis
* Spellcraft : +4 = 2 Rank + 3 Class Skill

==Gear==
:Gold: 468
Weight : 59 lbs
*Breastplate
*Heavy Steel Shield
*Masterwork Warhammer

==Spells==
Per Day
: Cantrip = Unlimited
: Level 1 = 5

=== Cantrips / DC 13 ===
*Create Water (2 Gallons per Level)
*Detect Magic
*Detect Poison
*Light (10 Min/Level)
*Read Magic

=== Level 1 / DC 14===
*Cure Light Wounds (1d8+Level = Max +5)
*Enlarge Person (Increase One Size Category)
*Shield of Faith (+2 Deflection to AC)

[[Category: Character Sheets]]

Talk:NoName the Second

2011-09-28T18:27:09Z

96.5.63.21: /* Flaw */

Bard Favored Class

Bard 1 / Rogue 1

==Attributes==

===Primary===
{|
|Strength || 7 (-2)
|-
|Dexterity || 14 (+2)
|-
|Constitution || 12 (+1)
|-
|Intelligence || 14 (+2)
|-
|Wisdom || 10 (--)
|-
|Charisma || 20 (+5)
|}

===Secondary===
{|
|Hit Points ||  || 18 ||  || 8 + 1 + 8 + 1
|-
|Armor Class |||| 16 |||| 10 +2 Dex +4 MW Chain Shirt (+4 vs Giant type)
|-
|Base Attack Bonus |||| +0
|-
|Initiative |||| +2
|-
|Base Speed |||| 20 ft. (15 ft. encumbered)
|-
|Fort Save |||| +1 |||| +1 stat
|-
|Reflex |||| +6 |||| +2 Bard, +2 Rogue, +2 Stat
|-
|Will Save |||| +2 |||| +2 Bard, +0 Stat
|}

*Combat Maneuver Bonus : -3 = +0 BaB + -2 Str -1 Size
*Combat Maneuver Defense : 9 = 10 +0 BaB - 2 Str + 2 Dex -1 Size

== Combat ==
*Masterwork Heavy X-Bow
** 1d8 Damage (19-20/x2) / +3 to Hit (+0 BaB +2 Dex +1 MW)

*Concentration Check : (+6) = 1 Caster Level + 5 Charisma Mod

==Feats and Abilities==

=== Class ===
* Sneak Attack: +1d6
* Trapfinding (+1/2 Rogue Level to Perception to find Traps)
* Bardic Knowledge (+Bard Level to all Knowledge Checks)
* Bardic Performance <15 Rounds/day> (4 Base + 5 CHR + 6 Feat)
* Countersong
* Distraction
* Fascinate
* Inspire Courage (+1)

=== Racial ===
* Low-Light Vision
* Detect Magic and/or Read Magic (CHR times per day, replaces Prestidigitation, Ghost Sound, and Speak with Animals)
* Dancing Lights <1/day>
* Defensive Training (+4 vs Giant Type)
* Hatred (+1 to hit Humans)
* Illusion Resistance (+2 Save vs. Illusion)
* Keen Senses (+2 Perception Checks)
* Magical Tinkering (+2 to UMD, may use untrained; Replaces Gnome Magic)
* Obsessive (Craft or Prof Here)
* Weapon Familiarity

=== Feats ===
*Level 1: Extra Performance
*Flaw: Exotic Weapon - Heavy Repeating Crossbow
*Class Proficiency (Weapon): Simple, Bard, Rogue
*Class Proficiency (Armor): Light, Shield

=== Flaw ===
* Prejudiced (Humans)
**Penalty: The character suffers a -3 penalty to all Diplomacy checks with members of their disliked race(s), and a -1 penalty to Sense Motive.
**Buying Off the Flaw: The character must invest 3 skill points in Diplomacy and 2 points in Sense Motive. This flaw cannot be removed before 5th level, even if enough skill points are spent.

===Languages===
*Ubrekti (B)
*Dwarven (I)
*Gnomish (B)
*Goblin (I)
*Orc (S)

B=birth language
I=intel point language
S=skill point language

==Skills==
19 to Spend
*''Acrobatics'' (+6) = 1 Ranks + 2 Dex + 3 Class Skill
*Appraise (+6) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill
*Bluff (+10) = 2 Rank + 5 Chr + 3 Class Skill
*Diplomacy (+10) = 2 Rank + 5 Chr + 3 Class Skill
*''Disable Device'' (+6) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill
*Knowledge-History (+7) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill + 1 Bardic Lore
*Knolwedge-Arcana (+7) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill + 1 Bardic Lore
*Knowledge-Geography (+7) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill + 1 Bardic Lore
*Linguistics (+6) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill
*Perception (+6) = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill + 2 Keen Senses
*Perform (+10) = 2 Rank + 5 Chr + 3 Class Skill
*Sense Motive (+4) = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill
*''Slight of Hand'' (+6) = 1 Rank + 2 Dex + 3 Class Skill
*Spellcraft (+6) = 1 Rank + 2 Int + 3 Class Skill
*''Stealth'' (+10) = 1 Rank + 2 Dex + 3 Class Skill + 4 Size
*Use Magic Device (+11) = 1 Rank + 5 Chr + 3 Class Skill + 2 Gnome Tinker

Skills in ''italics'' suffer from an armor check penalty of -1 when in armor.

==Gear==
:Gold: 350
Weight : 0 lbs
* Heavy Repeater (6 lbs)
* Buy Masterwork Backpack for everyone
* Chain Shirt (12.5 lbs)

==Spells==
Per Day
: Cantrip = Unlimited
: Level 1 = 3

=== Cantrips / DC 15 ===
* Prestidigitation
*Lullaby
*Sift
*Unwitting Ally

=== Level 1 / DC 16===
*Cure Light Wounds (1d8+Bard Level = Max +5)
*Innocence

[[Category: Character Sheets]]

NoName the Second

2011-09-28T18:09:40Z

96.5.63.21: /* Combat */

Oracle Favored Class

Oracle 2

==Attributes==

===Primary===
{|
|Strength || 14 (+2)
|-
|Dexterity || 12 (+1)
|-
|Constitution || 16 (+3)
|-
|Intelligence || 10 (--)
|-
|Wisdom || 9 (-1)
|-
|Charisma || 16 (+3)
|}

===Secondary===
{|
|Hit Points ||  || 22 ||  || 8 + 2 + 1 + 8 + 2 + 1
|-
|Armor Class |||| 19 |||| 10 +1 Dex +6 Breastplate +2 Heavy Shield (Additional +4 vs. Giant-type)
|-
|Base Attack Bonus |||| +1
|-
|Initiative |||| +1
|-
|Base Speed |||| 15 ft. (Oracle's Curse: Lame)
|-
|Fort Save |||| +3 |||| +0 Oracle, +3 stat
|-
|Reflex |||| +1 |||| +0 Oracle, +1 Stat
|-
|Will Save |||| +2 |||| +3 Oracle, -1 Stat
|}

*Combat Maneuver Bonus : +3 = +1 BaB + 2 Str
*Combat Maneuver Defense : 14 = 10 +1 BaB + 2 Str + 1 Dex

== Combat ==
*Masterwork Warhammer
** +5 = +1 BaB +2 Str +1 Masterwork +1 Weapon Focus
** Damage: 1d8+2 (20/x3)

*Concentration Check : (+11) = 2 Caster Level + 3 Charisma Mod + 4 Combat Casting + 2 Concentration Trait

==Feats and Abilities==

=== Class ===
* Mystery : Battle
* Curse : Lame
* Revelations : (2nd) Weapon Mastery

=== Racial ===
* Slow and Steady (No Encumber Penalties)
* Darkvision (60 Feet)
* Defensive Training (+4 AC vs. Giant-type)
* Greed (+2 Appraise non-magical metal and gems)
* Hardy (+2 Save vs. Poison, Spell, Spell-Like)
* Hatred (+1 to hit orcs and goblinoinds)
* Stability (+4 CMD vs. Trips and Bull Rush when standing)
* Stonecutting (+2 Perception vs. Stonework, Traps, Secret Doors)
* Weapon Familiarity (Dwarf Weapons treated as Martial)

=== Feats ===
*Level 1: Combat Casting (+4 Concentration in Combat)
*Flaw Feat: More Traits
**Courageous (+2 Save vs. Fear)
**Focused Mind (+2 Concentration Checks)
*Class Mystery Feat: Weapon Focus - Warhammer
*Class Proficiency (Weapon): Simple
*Class Proficiency (Armor): Light, Medium

=== Flaw ===
* Provincial
**Penalty: The character suffers a -1 penalty to Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nobility), and Knowledge (local) when outside a 50-mile-radius of their home.
**Buying Off the Flaw: The character must place 5 skill points in a Knowledge skill other than Knowledge (local).

===Languages===
*Ubrekti (B)
*Dwarven (I)

B=birth language
I=intel point language
S=skill point language

==Skills==
8 Skill Points to Spend
* Diplomacy : +7 = 1 Rank + 3 Chr + 3 Class Skill
* Intimidate : +7 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill + 3 Chr
* Knowledge (History) : +4 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill
* Knowledge (Religion) : +4 = 1 Rank + 3 class Skill
* Perception : +3 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill - 1 Wis
* Sense Motive : +3 = 1 Rank + 3 Class Skill -1 Wis
* Spellcraft : +4 = 2 Rank + 3 Class Skill

==Gear==
:Gold: 468
Weight : 59 lbs
*Breastplate
*Heavy Steel Shield
*Masterwork Warhammer

==Spells==
Per Day
: Cantrip = Unlimited
: Level 1 = 5

=== Cantrips / DC 13 ===
*Create Water (2 Gallons per Level)
*Detect Magic
*Detect Poison
*Light (10 Min/Level)
*Read Magic

=== Level 1 / DC 14===
*Cure Light Wounds (1d8+Level = Max +5)
*Enlarge Person (Increase One Size Category)
*Shield of Faith (+2 Deflection to AC)

[[Category: Character Sheets]]

Talk:Egg's Character Sheet

2011-04-13T19:08:24Z

96.5.63.21:

I don't know why I'm being overcome by an unnatural urge for honesty, but it occured to me that these skills aren't right. There is no way egg could have maxed out forgery and appraise--they're not in the wizard skill list, and prof was his level 1. It's pretty easy to fix if we drop the craft potion for cross-class learning, which I think is a good idea since these seem to be his wheelhouse skills. We could also shift the extend spell for brew potion if we wanted to keep up his crafting focus (I'm personally not really attached to crafting). --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: Sure, let's do that, then. I'd go ahead and swap out extend for brew potion, however. I'm not sure that he really he's really crafting focused, in that I doubt he'll get any other craft skills, but Brew Potion is just too good and too cheap not for him to spring on. Also more value to the party. -gm
:: Actually, why don't we just drop Prodigy and put in Cross-Class and free up a couple skill points while maintaining wizardly chops? -gm
::: Definitely ok with that. I think prodigy is mostly for trying to hit prestige classes early? It seems like a weak bonus--is it just for hitting prestige classes/syn bonuses earliy? I compare to the standard +2/+2 feats, which gets you +4 up on what you would normally have for your level for a feat. To get +4 up using prodigy, you have to spend 4 skills points in addition to the feat. In any case, I'll go this route. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: That's basically right. Professional is good at getting people skills to get into prestiges, and some of those prestiges (like, say, shadowdancer) have some pretty tough reqs in the skill department. So, prodigy essentially lets you take a prestige class one level early. Which, I think, is a *substantial* benefit for some players, although in a very delayed gratitude and metagame sort of way. Since egg is basically never going to get any prestige, there's no point in it for him and it makes the most sense to drop and replace. -gm

Also: Now that he's got his managerial chops up a little, he'll probably be focusing on Wizard from here on out, though I could see a potential 3rd level of Professional somewhere down the road, post-20 Intel (to game that extra skill point).
: That makes a lot of sense. I like the way this guy is growing. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.14|146.127.253.14]]
:: He's one of my favorites of my creation. You should watch the YouTube video I linked. -gm
::: I watched the video this morning that that dude was pretty much how I imagined Egged (except with the Green Tinted Goggles I remember from my wow twinking days) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: Heh, Hamilton had a lot more scruples than Egg.
::::: Was that the characters we made together? That's just cause I did all your dirty work, so there was no one to call hax on you ;) I had a good bit of fun with that pally I made. I need to play wow again :( I hear twinking is more fun now than it was before since they added non-xp bgs and merged all the battlegroups. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: I spent too long reading about WoW instead of working last night, and the low-level pvp looks so much better right now. I really gotta get back to that game for a while. I wish I had a life :( --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

13 Skill Points. Suggestions? Where does that leave us?
* 1 appraise
* 2 bluff
* 1 decipher script
* 1 forgery
* 2 gather info
* 1 knowledge (history)
* 5 knowledge (local, wydmoor)
: It's 13 cause he's a human (to be fair I got that from your notes). Of his maxed out skills, one is spellcraft, which is not in-class for him this level. I figured he learned a huge amount about wydmoor given that he has access to so many important people and locations, as well as his finger on the pulse of the city with his team of guardsmen. Other than that, a splash of social skills to cover his politicking. I wanted to give him some diplo, but I opted for GI instead--his diplo will never be worth a shit, and I figure he's not all that well liked, and relies on germain's reputation to smooth things over. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]
:: Yeah, I'd say I'm on the same page with all of that. He's like me - not really *unliked*, he's just not terribly diplomatic and doesn't bother with social niceties. Offputting, maybe, but not despised. I'd agree that, as a master forger, he'd value bluff over diplomacy for the Social Engineering aspect of passing forged docs. -gm
: PS. I could also imagine pulling a point out of knowledge, local and drop it into bluff --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]
:: Sounds good to me. His Int. is high enough to cover that lost point on 10s and 20s, which is the only way he rolls anyway. -gm
::: And, yes, he's human through and through. Feel free to commit the above. -gm
:::: Did the knowledge->bluff swap. We'll want to bring up his knowledge in wizzy levels to give him the GI boost (and because it makes sense flavor-wise) IMO.
::::: Sure, sounds good. In fact, if you wanted to move over something like Knowledge: Arcana somewhere else and double up on that one next wizzy level, that would make sense, too. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: I'd definitely trade arcana + religion (or arcana + bluff) to get up to 5 ranks in local, wydmoor. Do you prefer one option of the other? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::::::: Eh, suits me either way. -gm

Is Egg due for his +1 yet? -gm
: I didn't ding yet I don't think, so no. But I am very close. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.13|146.127.253.13]]
:Egg's Level 7:
:Professional Level 2
:+1 Reflex, +1 Will, +1 Bab, +9 HP
:Skills (12) : Suggestions Welcome Here
:Class Feats : Insightful Defense (+1 to Dex Mod for AC)
:: Skills should be 13 (human)
:: I'd like for him to get 3-5 ranks of diplomacy for his political needs. Otherwise, knowledges like planes and dungeoneering are not big in our party and would be excellent imo --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.13|146.127.253.13]]

Did you want me to do the level update for Egg when it happens, or do you want to do it? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: I will level *all* cohorts, though obviously requests, suggestions, and input from the player is always going to be a top consideration. -gm
:: A top consideration... FOR HIM TO POOP ON.
:: I'mkiddingpleasedon'thurtme -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Heh, I should have stuck you with a Goblin cohort. Speaking of, do we have a next game? -gm
:::: Dunno, suppose I should pop the Q in-thread. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::: Do you not have your cohort yet? Are you waiting to get out of L4D land? I would have loved hippy Kib and his freaky little gobbo pal. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: "Back in Civilization" is first thing next session. Gnob is quite dead, sadly. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 11:53, 9 March 2011 (EST)
::: GM eats too much cheese to poop on command like that! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Did you get all of your XP this game, or did you leave before the Quest Chain XP was given? Anyway, when this guy levels - professional or wizard? -gm
: I don't remember... I keep detailed xp numbers at arms length anyways ;) He should be my level - 2 and you should impose some sort of penalty or quest on me if he starts crafting. I'll have to ponder over the class. On one hand, I think he earned some time working the street and dealing with powerful people, so a level with mad skills would be good. On the other, there are some hot 4th level spells that could make me a much bigger thorn in the guild's side, which I think will be a bigger deal soon. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
: By the way, I like that the focus on abjuration and divination. That the sort of stuff I wanted from a wizard. The fact that I have nondetecetion at my disposal makes that whole discussion about the amulet a lot less important. It's not as good for political reasons, but its still pretty sweet. Also, I'd like to put clairvoyance on the wish list for spells. If I find a way to learn an area well enough, or get Egg to learn it, then I can spy on the guild and prisoners and such quite well. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
:: Well, I've got a plan for him if he starts crafting that may, in the long term. Basically, just keep track of his experience spent on crafting and I'll take care of the rest. -gm
:: Considering what he's been doing for the past three weeks, if he's getting a level it's going to be in Professional. From here on out, though, it'll probably be Wizzy since he's going to be doing a lot more research and mage stuff and a lot less setting up of a business. -gm
::: Yeah, looking at the untapped potential from level 1-3 and what I gain from level 4 spells, I think I like taking professional now. Give him some ranks in diplomacy please! I'll have to have a little chat with him about being so frank around the other PCs--I think its best that he and I sugar-coat ideas before we present them to any of the damn hippies in the party. His totally reasonable comment about selling food caused all sorts of silly moral issues for the party! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: For the record, Mose wouldn't have any qualms with you guys selling the rarer/luxury foodstuffs to the upper class at a premium. Seems like there would be more money to be made in hard-to-get stuffs for the rich than overcharging the penniless. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
::::: I'm sure that's what he was suggesting and Al just took it out of context ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Actually, there is a *lot* more to be had selling basic foodstuff than luxury items. Scarce items with low demand becoming more scarce is nothing compared to basic staples going from reasonably common to scarce. Fact is, prices are going to skyrocket with or without your help: Egg isn't creating the opportunity, just taking advantage of it. That's just the nature of the siege economy, and you can be sure that when the Thieves' Guild start shipping food in, it won't be to open a soup kitchen. -gm
: Well, you painted the grain supplies as in good shape so I assumed people in the town were good with basic foodstuffs, etc. Hence my thought that right now the townies would want to pay more for scarce luxury foods and wine versus the simpler stuff. Anyway, that's Mose's preference to try to make money off the rich rather than the poor, if possible. :) -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
:: Given that the cities pop has reduced by half at least and the fact that the city didn't really make much of an effort getting grain to the refugees anyways, this is a good point. Seems like the grain reserves should be well stocked for some time. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Unless it's been sitting long enough that spoilage is a factor. If this world had an equivalent to John Adams, I'd say the sensible thing would be to charge for the food so a few people don't take all of it and hoard it to resell at a much higher price than even you guys would charge, but I doubt Mose or anyone else has had a grounding in Economics (Germain might, except that the discipline as we know it probably doesn't exist on the Mainland, except in a very primitive form). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: All that is true, there is a grain ration being doled to citizens. In the camps, however, (or what is left of them) prices for even common food is huge, not that anyone has any money to spend on them anyway. Non-grain staples - food, butter, booze - are going to be expensive even inside the city, although the reopened smuggling corridors and drastically reduced population help with that some. -gm

== Spell Wish List ==
* Second Level
** Obscure Object
** Magic Mouth
** Misdirection
** Detect Thoughts
* Third Level
** Explosive Runes
** Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
** Illusory Script
* Fourth Level
** Magic Eye
** Detect Scrying
** Locate Creature

== Audit ==

You might want to audit this guy, decent chance he has messed up skill ranks, with prodigy and open minded. -gm
: This is doubly true now, he just gained two levels and picked up another open minded feat. He has one more knowledge to learn of your choice. -gm

* '''[Fixed]''' Missing one skill point (probably because his sp/level went up at 4. should be: 48(1st) + 6(2nd) + 6(3rd) + 7(4th) + 5(feat))
* '''[Fixed, with Gusto]''' Characters start with Ubrekti + Regional languages, so Egg is either missing a language or a skill point
:: I think I originally had Ubrekti as his birth language, before it was discovered that he was of hakani descent.

== Fitting In ==
We'll have to see how we want to play it. I had a similar discussion with Slitherrr about *****************, his coming cohort. Basically, do you want to play and manage every part of the guy, have me run the guys personality but control him in combat, or have me control everything with you giving general commands?

Likewise, advancement - you or me? I would think he obviously sticks to Wizard, though depending on what kind of work you have him doing early on it might make sense RP wise to take a second level in professional, as well as just being a good add. Prof 2/Wizard X gets a +1 AC bonus and a net of +4 skill points, over Prof 1/Wizard X, I believe? Prof 4/Wizard X is a much more substantial investment in the nonmagical side of thing, which is costing probably two spell levels for +2 AC bonus, a net of +12 skill points and Uncanny Dodge.

: Really up to you. I'm sure you don't want to play another character, so I'll make the decisions for him in game time. He's pretty much a squishy buffer in MMO terms, so in general I expect he'll stick close to LE and cast buffs. As for advancement, I'd say straight wizard unless there is a really compelling reason to go prof 2. Multiclassing casters is a lot harsher than martial characters except for a splash. Also, he'll have plenty of skill points, and Germ is happy to have a knowledge guy around, which wizards do fine at.
: Germ in general would prefer a cohort that pushes back and has his own opinions--he's not looking for a yes-man, he's looking for another set of eyes and a sharp mind to bounce ideas off of. So in general I'll make the decisions to lighten your load, and you veto anything you don't like. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Talk:Egg's Character Sheet

2011-04-13T18:36:35Z

96.5.63.21:

I don't know why I'm being overcome by an unnatural urge for honesty, but it occured to me that these skills aren't right. There is no way egg could have maxed out forgery and appraise--they're not in the wizard skill list, and prof was his level 1. It's pretty easy to fix if we drop the craft potion for cross-class learning, which I think is a good idea since these seem to be his wheelhouse skills. We could also shift the extend spell for brew potion if we wanted to keep up his crafting focus (I'm personally not really attached to crafting). --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: Sure, let's do that, then. I'd go ahead and swap out extend for brew potion, however. I'm not sure that he really he's really crafting focused, in that I doubt he'll get any other craft skills, but Brew Potion is just too good and too cheap not for him to spring on. Also more value to the party. -gm
:: Actually, why don't we just drop Prodigy and put in Cross-Class and free up a couple skill points while maintaining wizardly chops? -gm

Also: Now that he's got his managerial chops up a little, he'll probably be focusing on Wizard from here on out, though I could see a potential 3rd level of Professional somewhere down the road, post-20 Intel (to game that extra skill point).
: That makes a lot of sense. I like the way this guy is growing. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.14|146.127.253.14]]
:: He's one of my favorites of my creation. You should watch the YouTube video I linked. -gm
::: I watched the video this morning that that dude was pretty much how I imagined Egged (except with the Green Tinted Goggles I remember from my wow twinking days) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: Heh, Hamilton had a lot more scruples than Egg.
::::: Was that the characters we made together? That's just cause I did all your dirty work, so there was no one to call hax on you ;) I had a good bit of fun with that pally I made. I need to play wow again :( I hear twinking is more fun now than it was before since they added non-xp bgs and merged all the battlegroups. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: I spent too long reading about WoW instead of working last night, and the low-level pvp looks so much better right now. I really gotta get back to that game for a while. I wish I had a life :( --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

13 Skill Points. Suggestions? Where does that leave us?
* 1 appraise
* 2 bluff
* 1 decipher script
* 1 forgery
* 2 gather info
* 1 knowledge (history)
* 5 knowledge (local, wydmoor)
: It's 13 cause he's a human (to be fair I got that from your notes). Of his maxed out skills, one is spellcraft, which is not in-class for him this level. I figured he learned a huge amount about wydmoor given that he has access to so many important people and locations, as well as his finger on the pulse of the city with his team of guardsmen. Other than that, a splash of social skills to cover his politicking. I wanted to give him some diplo, but I opted for GI instead--his diplo will never be worth a shit, and I figure he's not all that well liked, and relies on germain's reputation to smooth things over. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]
:: Yeah, I'd say I'm on the same page with all of that. He's like me - not really *unliked*, he's just not terribly diplomatic and doesn't bother with social niceties. Offputting, maybe, but not despised. I'd agree that, as a master forger, he'd value bluff over diplomacy for the Social Engineering aspect of passing forged docs. -gm
: PS. I could also imagine pulling a point out of knowledge, local and drop it into bluff --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]
:: Sounds good to me. His Int. is high enough to cover that lost point on 10s and 20s, which is the only way he rolls anyway. -gm
::: And, yes, he's human through and through. Feel free to commit the above. -gm
:::: Did the knowledge->bluff swap. We'll want to bring up his knowledge in wizzy levels to give him the GI boost (and because it makes sense flavor-wise) IMO.
::::: Sure, sounds good. In fact, if you wanted to move over something like Knowledge: Arcana somewhere else and double up on that one next wizzy level, that would make sense, too. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: I'd definitely trade arcana + religion (or arcana + bluff) to get up to 5 ranks in local, wydmoor. Do you prefer one option of the other? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::::::: Eh, suits me either way. -gm

Is Egg due for his +1 yet? -gm
: I didn't ding yet I don't think, so no. But I am very close. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.13|146.127.253.13]]
:Egg's Level 7:
:Professional Level 2
:+1 Reflex, +1 Will, +1 Bab, +9 HP
:Skills (12) : Suggestions Welcome Here
:Class Feats : Insightful Defense (+1 to Dex Mod for AC)
:: Skills should be 13 (human)
:: I'd like for him to get 3-5 ranks of diplomacy for his political needs. Otherwise, knowledges like planes and dungeoneering are not big in our party and would be excellent imo --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.13|146.127.253.13]]

Did you want me to do the level update for Egg when it happens, or do you want to do it? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: I will level *all* cohorts, though obviously requests, suggestions, and input from the player is always going to be a top consideration. -gm
:: A top consideration... FOR HIM TO POOP ON.
:: I'mkiddingpleasedon'thurtme -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Heh, I should have stuck you with a Goblin cohort. Speaking of, do we have a next game? -gm
:::: Dunno, suppose I should pop the Q in-thread. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::: Do you not have your cohort yet? Are you waiting to get out of L4D land? I would have loved hippy Kib and his freaky little gobbo pal. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: "Back in Civilization" is first thing next session. Gnob is quite dead, sadly. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 11:53, 9 March 2011 (EST)
::: GM eats too much cheese to poop on command like that! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Did you get all of your XP this game, or did you leave before the Quest Chain XP was given? Anyway, when this guy levels - professional or wizard? -gm
: I don't remember... I keep detailed xp numbers at arms length anyways ;) He should be my level - 2 and you should impose some sort of penalty or quest on me if he starts crafting. I'll have to ponder over the class. On one hand, I think he earned some time working the street and dealing with powerful people, so a level with mad skills would be good. On the other, there are some hot 4th level spells that could make me a much bigger thorn in the guild's side, which I think will be a bigger deal soon. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
: By the way, I like that the focus on abjuration and divination. That the sort of stuff I wanted from a wizard. The fact that I have nondetecetion at my disposal makes that whole discussion about the amulet a lot less important. It's not as good for political reasons, but its still pretty sweet. Also, I'd like to put clairvoyance on the wish list for spells. If I find a way to learn an area well enough, or get Egg to learn it, then I can spy on the guild and prisoners and such quite well. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
:: Well, I've got a plan for him if he starts crafting that may, in the long term. Basically, just keep track of his experience spent on crafting and I'll take care of the rest. -gm
:: Considering what he's been doing for the past three weeks, if he's getting a level it's going to be in Professional. From here on out, though, it'll probably be Wizzy since he's going to be doing a lot more research and mage stuff and a lot less setting up of a business. -gm
::: Yeah, looking at the untapped potential from level 1-3 and what I gain from level 4 spells, I think I like taking professional now. Give him some ranks in diplomacy please! I'll have to have a little chat with him about being so frank around the other PCs--I think its best that he and I sugar-coat ideas before we present them to any of the damn hippies in the party. His totally reasonable comment about selling food caused all sorts of silly moral issues for the party! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: For the record, Mose wouldn't have any qualms with you guys selling the rarer/luxury foodstuffs to the upper class at a premium. Seems like there would be more money to be made in hard-to-get stuffs for the rich than overcharging the penniless. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
::::: I'm sure that's what he was suggesting and Al just took it out of context ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Actually, there is a *lot* more to be had selling basic foodstuff than luxury items. Scarce items with low demand becoming more scarce is nothing compared to basic staples going from reasonably common to scarce. Fact is, prices are going to skyrocket with or without your help: Egg isn't creating the opportunity, just taking advantage of it. That's just the nature of the siege economy, and you can be sure that when the Thieves' Guild start shipping food in, it won't be to open a soup kitchen. -gm
: Well, you painted the grain supplies as in good shape so I assumed people in the town were good with basic foodstuffs, etc. Hence my thought that right now the townies would want to pay more for scarce luxury foods and wine versus the simpler stuff. Anyway, that's Mose's preference to try to make money off the rich rather than the poor, if possible. :) -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
:: Given that the cities pop has reduced by half at least and the fact that the city didn't really make much of an effort getting grain to the refugees anyways, this is a good point. Seems like the grain reserves should be well stocked for some time. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Unless it's been sitting long enough that spoilage is a factor. If this world had an equivalent to John Adams, I'd say the sensible thing would be to charge for the food so a few people don't take all of it and hoard it to resell at a much higher price than even you guys would charge, but I doubt Mose or anyone else has had a grounding in Economics (Germain might, except that the discipline as we know it probably doesn't exist on the Mainland, except in a very primitive form). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: All that is true, there is a grain ration being doled to citizens. In the camps, however, (or what is left of them) prices for even common food is huge, not that anyone has any money to spend on them anyway. Non-grain staples - food, butter, booze - are going to be expensive even inside the city, although the reopened smuggling corridors and drastically reduced population help with that some. -gm

== Spell Wish List ==
* Second Level
** Obscure Object
** Magic Mouth
** Misdirection
** Detect Thoughts
* Third Level
** Explosive Runes
** Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
** Illusory Script
* Fourth Level
** Magic Eye
** Detect Scrying
** Locate Creature

== Audit ==

You might want to audit this guy, decent chance he has messed up skill ranks, with prodigy and open minded. -gm
: This is doubly true now, he just gained two levels and picked up another open minded feat. He has one more knowledge to learn of your choice. -gm

* '''[Fixed]''' Missing one skill point (probably because his sp/level went up at 4. should be: 48(1st) + 6(2nd) + 6(3rd) + 7(4th) + 5(feat))
* '''[Fixed, with Gusto]''' Characters start with Ubrekti + Regional languages, so Egg is either missing a language or a skill point
:: I think I originally had Ubrekti as his birth language, before it was discovered that he was of hakani descent.

== Fitting In ==
We'll have to see how we want to play it. I had a similar discussion with Slitherrr about *****************, his coming cohort. Basically, do you want to play and manage every part of the guy, have me run the guys personality but control him in combat, or have me control everything with you giving general commands?

Likewise, advancement - you or me? I would think he obviously sticks to Wizard, though depending on what kind of work you have him doing early on it might make sense RP wise to take a second level in professional, as well as just being a good add. Prof 2/Wizard X gets a +1 AC bonus and a net of +4 skill points, over Prof 1/Wizard X, I believe? Prof 4/Wizard X is a much more substantial investment in the nonmagical side of thing, which is costing probably two spell levels for +2 AC bonus, a net of +12 skill points and Uncanny Dodge.

: Really up to you. I'm sure you don't want to play another character, so I'll make the decisions for him in game time. He's pretty much a squishy buffer in MMO terms, so in general I expect he'll stick close to LE and cast buffs. As for advancement, I'd say straight wizard unless there is a really compelling reason to go prof 2. Multiclassing casters is a lot harsher than martial characters except for a splash. Also, he'll have plenty of skill points, and Germ is happy to have a knowledge guy around, which wizards do fine at.
: Germ in general would prefer a cohort that pushes back and has his own opinions--he's not looking for a yes-man, he's looking for another set of eyes and a sharp mind to bounce ideas off of. So in general I'll make the decisions to lighten your load, and you veto anything you don't like. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Talk:Egg's Character Sheet

2011-04-12T14:30:20Z

96.5.63.21:

13 Skill Points. Suggestions? Where does that leave us?
* 1 appraise
* 1 bluff
* 1 decipher script
* 1 forgery
* 2 gather info
* 1 knowledge (arcana)
* 1 knowledge (history)
* 4 knowledge (local, wydmoor)
* 1 knowledge (religion)
: It's 13 cause he's a human (to be fair I got that from your notes). Of his maxed out skills, one is spellcraft, which is not in-class for him this level. I figured he learned a huge amount about wydmoor given that he has access to so many important people and locations, as well as his finger on the pulse of the city with his team of guardsmen. Other than that, a splash of social skills to cover his politicking. I wanted to give him some diplo, but I opted for GI instead--his diplo will never be worth a shit, and I figure he's not all that well liked, and relies on germain's reputation to smooth things over. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]
:: Yeah, I'd say I'm on the same page with all of that. He's like me - not really *unliked*, he's just not terribly diplomatic and doesn't bother with social niceties. Offputting, maybe, but not despised. I'd agree that, as a master forger, he'd value bluff over diplomacy for the Social Engineering aspect of passing forged docs. -gm
: PS. I could also imagine pulling a point out of knowledge, local and drop it into bluff --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]
:: Sounds good to me. His Int. is high enough to cover that lost point on 10s and 20s, which is the only way he rolls anyway. -gm
::: And, yes, he's human through and through. -gm

Is Egg due for his +1 yet? -gm
: I didn't ding yet I don't think, so no. But I am very close. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.13|146.127.253.13]]
:Egg's Level 7:
:Professional Level 2
:+1 Reflex, +1 Will, +1 Bab, +9 HP
:Skills (12) : Suggestions Welcome Here
:Class Feats : Insightful Defense (+1 to Dex Mod for AC)
:: Skills should be 13 (human)
:: I'd like for him to get 3-5 ranks of diplomacy for his political needs. Otherwise, knowledges like planes and dungeoneering are not big in our party and would be excellent imo --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.13|146.127.253.13]]

Did you want me to do the level update for Egg when it happens, or do you want to do it? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: I will level *all* cohorts, though obviously requests, suggestions, and input from the player is always going to be a top consideration. -gm
:: A top consideration... FOR HIM TO POOP ON.
:: I'mkiddingpleasedon'thurtme -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Heh, I should have stuck you with a Goblin cohort. Speaking of, do we have a next game? -gm
:::: Dunno, suppose I should pop the Q in-thread. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::: Do you not have your cohort yet? Are you waiting to get out of L4D land? I would have loved hippy Kib and his freaky little gobbo pal. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: "Back in Civilization" is first thing next session. Gnob is quite dead, sadly. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 11:53, 9 March 2011 (EST)
::: GM eats too much cheese to poop on command like that! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Did you get all of your XP this game, or did you leave before the Quest Chain XP was given? Anyway, when this guy levels - professional or wizard? -gm
: I don't remember... I keep detailed xp numbers at arms length anyways ;) He should be my level - 2 and you should impose some sort of penalty or quest on me if he starts crafting. I'll have to ponder over the class. On one hand, I think he earned some time working the street and dealing with powerful people, so a level with mad skills would be good. On the other, there are some hot 4th level spells that could make me a much bigger thorn in the guild's side, which I think will be a bigger deal soon. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
: By the way, I like that the focus on abjuration and divination. That the sort of stuff I wanted from a wizard. The fact that I have nondetecetion at my disposal makes that whole discussion about the amulet a lot less important. It's not as good for political reasons, but its still pretty sweet. Also, I'd like to put clairvoyance on the wish list for spells. If I find a way to learn an area well enough, or get Egg to learn it, then I can spy on the guild and prisoners and such quite well. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
:: Well, I've got a plan for him if he starts crafting that may, in the long term. Basically, just keep track of his experience spent on crafting and I'll take care of the rest. -gm
:: Considering what he's been doing for the past three weeks, if he's getting a level it's going to be in Professional. From here on out, though, it'll probably be Wizzy since he's going to be doing a lot more research and mage stuff and a lot less setting up of a business. -gm
::: Yeah, looking at the untapped potential from level 1-3 and what I gain from level 4 spells, I think I like taking professional now. Give him some ranks in diplomacy please! I'll have to have a little chat with him about being so frank around the other PCs--I think its best that he and I sugar-coat ideas before we present them to any of the damn hippies in the party. His totally reasonable comment about selling food caused all sorts of silly moral issues for the party! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: For the record, Mose wouldn't have any qualms with you guys selling the rarer/luxury foodstuffs to the upper class at a premium. Seems like there would be more money to be made in hard-to-get stuffs for the rich than overcharging the penniless. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
::::: I'm sure that's what he was suggesting and Al just took it out of context ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Actually, there is a *lot* more to be had selling basic foodstuff than luxury items. Scarce items with low demand becoming more scarce is nothing compared to basic staples going from reasonably common to scarce. Fact is, prices are going to skyrocket with or without your help: Egg isn't creating the opportunity, just taking advantage of it. That's just the nature of the siege economy, and you can be sure that when the Thieves' Guild start shipping food in, it won't be to open a soup kitchen. -gm
: Well, you painted the grain supplies as in good shape so I assumed people in the town were good with basic foodstuffs, etc. Hence my thought that right now the townies would want to pay more for scarce luxury foods and wine versus the simpler stuff. Anyway, that's Mose's preference to try to make money off the rich rather than the poor, if possible. :) -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
:: Given that the cities pop has reduced by half at least and the fact that the city didn't really make much of an effort getting grain to the refugees anyways, this is a good point. Seems like the grain reserves should be well stocked for some time. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Unless it's been sitting long enough that spoilage is a factor. If this world had an equivalent to John Adams, I'd say the sensible thing would be to charge for the food so a few people don't take all of it and hoard it to resell at a much higher price than even you guys would charge, but I doubt Mose or anyone else has had a grounding in Economics (Germain might, except that the discipline as we know it probably doesn't exist on the Mainland, except in a very primitive form). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: All that is true, there is a grain ration being doled to citizens. In the camps, however, (or what is left of them) prices for even common food is huge, not that anyone has any money to spend on them anyway. Non-grain staples - food, butter, booze - are going to be expensive even inside the city, although the reopened smuggling corridors and drastically reduced population help with that some. -gm

== Spell Wish List ==
* Second Level
** Obscure Object
** Magic Mouth
** Misdirection
** Detect Thoughts
* Third Level
** Explosive Runes
** Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
** Illusory Script
* Fourth Level
** Magic Eye
** Detect Scrying
** Locate Creature

== Audit ==

You might want to audit this guy, decent chance he has messed up skill ranks, with prodigy and open minded. -gm
: This is doubly true now, he just gained two levels and picked up another open minded feat. He has one more knowledge to learn of your choice. -gm

* '''[Fixed]''' Missing one skill point (probably because his sp/level went up at 4. should be: 48(1st) + 6(2nd) + 6(3rd) + 7(4th) + 5(feat))
* '''[Fixed, with Gusto]''' Characters start with Ubrekti + Regional languages, so Egg is either missing a language or a skill point
:: I think I originally had Ubrekti as his birth language, before it was discovered that he was of hakani descent.

== Fitting In ==
We'll have to see how we want to play it. I had a similar discussion with Slitherrr about *****************, his coming cohort. Basically, do you want to play and manage every part of the guy, have me run the guys personality but control him in combat, or have me control everything with you giving general commands?

Likewise, advancement - you or me? I would think he obviously sticks to Wizard, though depending on what kind of work you have him doing early on it might make sense RP wise to take a second level in professional, as well as just being a good add. Prof 2/Wizard X gets a +1 AC bonus and a net of +4 skill points, over Prof 1/Wizard X, I believe? Prof 4/Wizard X is a much more substantial investment in the nonmagical side of thing, which is costing probably two spell levels for +2 AC bonus, a net of +12 skill points and Uncanny Dodge.

: Really up to you. I'm sure you don't want to play another character, so I'll make the decisions for him in game time. He's pretty much a squishy buffer in MMO terms, so in general I expect he'll stick close to LE and cast buffs. As for advancement, I'd say straight wizard unless there is a really compelling reason to go prof 2. Multiclassing casters is a lot harsher than martial characters except for a splash. Also, he'll have plenty of skill points, and Germ is happy to have a knowledge guy around, which wizards do fine at.
: Germ in general would prefer a cohort that pushes back and has his own opinions--he's not looking for a yes-man, he's looking for another set of eyes and a sharp mind to bounce ideas off of. So in general I'll make the decisions to lighten your load, and you veto anything you don't like. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Talk:Favored Soul

2011-04-08T17:32:17Z

96.5.63.21:

== Wings Alternatives ==
I would love to personalize this by creating some sort of alt-ability that isn't fucking wings. -gm
: What about a DM-chosen elemental/outsider companion of 12 HD? (I.e. somewhat like the creatures from ''Planar Ally''.) For balance purposes, I think Druid animal companions are like 16-18 hit dice at this level, a Paladin mount would be ~12HD in this range, and a Leadership cohort could be level 16. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
:: That's a good idea. Another might be some sort of powerful and interesting aura. Like a permanent magic circle against chaos centered on the player or something. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: I was going to propose the [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm Aura of Menace] that archons get, but it had wording in there about removing the effect if they were hit by an attack. While good, I figured this wouldn't be as universally handy as Wings might be. Still some sort of circle/aura thing is a good idea, too. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]

My idea was a sort of slotted-permanency spell mechanic, where you could swap out X spell levels worth of eligible spells on yourself that have a permanent duration, during some ritual that is time consuming but XP free. Where X is, perhaps, your unmodified CHR modifier. -gm

Alt: Deathless : The sunrise/sunset (depending on alignment) after you are killed, you rise again as if by a raise dead spell, suffering all related losses. You still age normally, and will still die when your maximum age is reached.
: I have an issue with this one, but its... well... difficult to classify I guess. Player death generally only happens when a) the player is generally ok with it (ie. won't quit) and b) it seems like it will drive the story in a good way. At least with my experience in our games, players don't generally die in the middle of insignificant fights--they die in high risk situations where they can at least go out with some bang. If its a frivolous death, I suspect there are some fudged die rolls and second chances that usually prevent it. Not to say GM isn't mean and harsh--just that dieing because you failed a low DC save on a trap that was put in a hall to be a speedbump doesn't tell a good story, and that's really what its all about.
:: I have an issue with this line of thought and I don't agree with it and, if taken to the extreme, is going to end up getting someone killed. It's not *all* about the story, it's *all* about fun and the game. If *all* I cared about was the story, I'd go back to being a writer. I think this PoV ends up bringing with it essentially the same mindset as Freddie and Fannie - "Well, we've got an implicit guarantee of health, so lets undevalue risk!"
:: I think part of your feeling that was is because, frankly, we never get beyond 10th or 12th level very often in ANY of our games, which is right about the time THAT particular idea (death is rare and unlikely) goes out the window. LE is throwing PKs around like crazy, and soon you guys will start facing them on your own. By the time you hit level 18, things like Power Word Kill, Finger of Death, et al. are amazingly, amazingly prevalent.
:: Also, you'll notice I don't *believe* in "insignificant fights," in that every fight is potentially lethal. I don't subscribe to the WotC/D&D standard dungeon crawl model of fighting a bunch of weenies then going to rest.
:: At the end of the day, I don't believe that "it's all about the story" is a valid point of view, and I'm the storyteller. Like all collaborative activities, everyone defines "what it's about" a different way.
:: Also, as an aside, I think player death even in minor combats "moves the story forward" because the "story" is interactive and morphic and continues apace if no one dies or if everyone does. Also, the effect of a player death on the party automatically has storyline significance-gm
:: What this really tells me is that some people are expecting me to bail them out. If all we care about is interactive storytelling, let's break out the Once Upon a Time cards. -gm

: Given that, this ability has pretty limited value. Chances are good that all that will really happen is the player will not get the second chances that they would normally have got, and they will come back to life. It could be a cool story moment, but chances are good that it will not be. In which case, this ability should read: at some point in the future, you will die for some silly reason that you probably would't have died from if you didn't have this ability, and your resurrection will be somewhat more flavorful. It'll sort of end up like Anise's death, which was fine for a 1st level item power, but seems weak for a 17th level class ability. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:: As above. Flawed premises lead to highly flawed presumptions. -gm

== Divine Casters of the world ==
So, Mainland has Clerics, and Petara has Favored Souls as befitting their more decentralized religion. Druids and rangers are the sole divine casters among the Sidhe, and never become favored souls, although both Druids and Favored Souls are rare but not unheard of among the Halflings. -gm

Talk:Germain

2011-03-28T20:18:02Z

96.5.63.21:

***DING +1 LEVEL -- XP : 36075***
: Did I miss a game. I wouldn't be surprised given how out of touch I've made myself. I don't even think I've checked my personal email in weeks :( --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:: You should consider checking it. We've had a lively discussion about the game, and we all called you like three times. -gm
:: You won't be surprised to hear: Quinalin ran ahead before the haste horn went off. Also, if you had joined, I think you might have died trying to save Kimi. The GM botted you in a way that probably accidentally saved your life from the wererat assassin toting a humanbane weapon. You missed some epic spell-casting though, specifically Conjuration spells. A devastating Wall of Stone, Summon Nature's Ally V (lg. earth elem), Summon Monster IV (lantern archon)-- lots of cool magic. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
::: I think you are overestimating how noble and brave I am :) Sorry I failed so miserably, though. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: Did we catch that wererat, btw? I'm gonna work him over real good if I can get him in my custody. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::::: The wererats were Errol and Flynn. One of them was killed by LE's PK, the other one absconded after that. However, the leader cleric and (depending on a heal roll) one of the middle manager clerics were captured alive. You can make a Knowledge: Local (Wydmoor) roll to see if you recognize the wererat body, though. -gm

Have we reached an acceptable level of fluff yet? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: You're a natural fluffer. -gm
:: This is my favorite part: ''He wears his wavy, light-brown hair cropped to his ears and slicked back with copious amounts of oil, and he sports a thin, well-groomed moustache.'' It doesn't quite stand up to my comment about Sayid's testimonial, but I like it for the creep factor. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Your use of TOME profession rules--does that mean they're approved and I can make the skills on Kib's sheet official? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: He did? I'll just ignore those skills next time he tries to use one. -gm
:: That assumes I'll ever actually use them--aren't they only used for making money out-of-game? I'll percolate the law discussion to the top of my character sheet talk page again. For the record, I think professions are dumb as they are implemented now, and the TOME ones are much more sensible. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: More rules == more unhappy Jonesy. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: Now you get it! We're not 16 anymore, we have *shit* to *do* in the real world! -gm
::::: I mean, the discussion here is basically about whether we invent new law skills. If I had my druthers, we'd drop profession completely and cover lawyering with knowledge (local) as the rules specify. Definitely the path of least resistence. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

From an in-game note:

<blockquote><pre>Germain is physically average, but carries himself with a presence more impressive than his physique might indicate.
His clothes are not fancy, but are well tailored and attractive, and suitable for a traveler or soldier.
He carries himself comfortable and confidently.
</pre></blockquote>

re: canon. LOL! Weak ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] 16:33, 14 December 2009 (EST)
: Ha, you just rolled over. No wonder Germain is such a pussy. Like player, like character. -gm
:: Coughs nervously. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

That's a nice bow, I still say the free shot as a free action for ranger might not be terrible. they get decent skill points >:)
-----
So, you've spent hours flushing out people the party might never actually meet. Does Germain *himself* get details to his background, or do I get to assign them? (ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease!)
: Haven't I spent 10x as many hours obsessing over how, precisely, to allocate my skill points and attributes? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:: You are mistaking crunch for fluff. Fluff *will* be produced.... one way or the other. -gm
::: Fluff? What's that? ::whistles nonchalantly:: -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: Oh, fear not. I've more than adequate fluff to run with in the Kib department.
:::: Although, mixing fluff and crunch does lead uncomfortable places in regards to that 8 wisdom. -gm
::::: I have a lot of trouble figuring out what 8 Wisdom means, honestly. Kib doesn't look compulsive because he's right next to Gil all the time--the idea is that he's really pretty impatient, but when you've got a guy throwing an axe every time anything happens, it doesn't really come out. Maybe it just means he sucks at Nature things. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::::: Well, feel free to add whatever you like, although I'd prefer you spend your time at [[Steros Merroand]] and the [[First Stand]]. Just please please please don't give me a distant and abrasive father and a psycho brother *again*! I always imagined that Germ got along with his family, and all of them had the good sense to know that leaving was in everyone's best interests. --[[Special:Contributions/146.127.253.45|146.127.253.45]]
::::::: Germain's backstory is about 1000x more in-game relevant than Steros'.
:::::::: Ah well, guess my whole family is going to die again :( --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::::::::: Not necessarily. It might not even come up ever, but it might.
:::::::::: BUT, if you think people aren't looking at the party with a much more focused lens these days, you're significantly less cagey than the G-man.

: I would feel better about him being a coaster if he didn't also "excel." I'd think a 14 INT is good enough to get by, or buckle down and excel, but I think you'd need at least a 16 to achieve accolades on cruise control. -gm
:: Meng, "excel" isn't even in the writeup. "Perform his studies passably" is equivalent to "skate by". I can make it more clear if you like --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Ah, nah, that's good. I wasn't reading it in Letter of Recomendation-Speak. It's all good. -gm

== Physical appearance ==

How does Germain look physically? I didn't see that in his description or character sheet. Also Germain now has the [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hat_of_Disguise hat of disguise] now, so I'd be curious how he chooses to present himself (and the hat).

Note: I'm currently commissioning some art of Mose to test artists for an eventual party drawing, so this description will be helpful down the road. :)

-[[User:Mattie|Mattie]] 09:48, 8 March 2011 (EST)

Talk:Egtheladanna Krin

2011-03-11T18:50:11Z

96.5.63.21:

What's his alignment? Do I know yet? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: Actually, I think I remember you said CN --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:: Yup. Chaotic Neutral it is, I believe. -gm
::: Welcome to team shady--hopefully we can keep in LE's good graces with our lax morals and she'll eat our souls last. I'm not sure why all YOUR games end up with PC conflict and force me to act against my own allies, but when the inevitable happens this time around I'll assume it was all your fault ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: Yes, the fact that the soul of humanity is conflict is my fault. -gm
::::: I was setting you up for a comment about how the common denominator in all the conflicts is me (pactrik vs. joseph, sayid vs. sterros, dweezil vs. everyone) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: I think it's more effective having you out yourself. >:) -gm

I LOVE HIM! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: Glad you like him. He doesn't exactly fit any of those three archtypes, but it borrows something from all of them and adds some things that I think are ultimately more helpful to the party proper. Probably closest to Watson, in that he's highly educated and specialized, although he's ultimately probably just as shady as germain and much more reckless (with a 14 Wisdom compared to his sidekick's 8 and his propensity for running party discussions like committee meetings, I'd say Germain is actually not too prone to recklessness and is pretty conservative at heart, at least tactically/strategically. That he throws himself in danger - with, for example, the shield - strikes me as much more Calculated Risk than Recklessness.). He actually has a similar background and features to DD in many of ways, although that wasn't exactly my intent. Also most like Watson in that he is a great candidate for Loremaster (probably even one level early, thanks to Prodigy feat). -gm
:: Ah, can't make it because of the feats. Which is good, because Loremaster actually kind of blows. -gm
::::Loremaster really blows. Seriously, it's goddam awful - especially considering the reqs for it.
::::: Its kind of a shit class, but it has good flavor and it sort of lets you remain a caster while building up greater skill-monkey stats --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Yeah, definitely more reckless, and probably more illicit, than Geramin. But like we've said a few times, Germ really ended up a pretty cautious type of guy, which makes sense since he probably obsesses too much to act quickly. In any case, I think Egg'll be a great sidekick that augments a number of skills that germ cares about, and also fills in some gaps in his expertise. Also more unique personality than any of the suggestions I made. Love it! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: I expect his alignment might even be CN, though not trending toward the insane side of it. -gm
How old is he now? Germain's age (like, mid-20s?) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:: Yeah, probably so. Maybe even a bit younger, early twenties?
:: Also - going with your NCIS metaphor, I guess Edrell is pretty much like that boss guy (crazy smart, and kind of a semi-charming a-hole.) I guess that makes Egg your goth computer chick. Fuck you for making me watch an episode of NCIS and put this all together. I have to say, I've become smitten by the asshole boss' style. -gm
::: Not surprisingly, he reminds me of my Dad. Right down to his occasional use of the phrase "grab ass," which I've never really heard from anyone else. Germain is the DiNozzo of the show --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Talk:Egg's Character Sheet

2011-03-09T19:24:46Z

96.5.63.21:

Is Egg due for his +1 yet? -gm

Did you want me to do the level update for Egg when it happens, or do you want to do it? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: I will level *all* cohorts, though obviously requests, suggestions, and input from the player is always going to be a top consideration. -gm
:: A top consideration... FOR HIM TO POOP ON.
:: I'mkiddingpleasedon'thurtme -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Heh, I should have stuck you with a Goblin cohort. Speaking of, do we have a next game? -gm
:::: Dunno, suppose I should pop the Q in-thread. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::: Do you not have your cohort yet? Are you waiting to get out of L4D land? I would have loved hippy Kib and his freaky little gobbo pal. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::::: "Back in Civilization" is first thing next session. Gnob is quite dead, sadly. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 11:53, 9 March 2011 (EST)
::: GM eats too much cheese to poop on command like that! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Did you get all of your XP this game, or did you leave before the Quest Chain XP was given? Anyway, when this guy levels - professional or wizard? -gm
: I don't remember... I keep detailed xp numbers at arms length anyways ;) He should be my level - 2 and you should impose some sort of penalty or quest on me if he starts crafting. I'll have to ponder over the class. On one hand, I think he earned some time working the street and dealing with powerful people, so a level with mad skills would be good. On the other, there are some hot 4th level spells that could make me a much bigger thorn in the guild's side, which I think will be a bigger deal soon. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
: By the way, I like that the focus on abjuration and divination. That the sort of stuff I wanted from a wizard. The fact that I have nondetecetion at my disposal makes that whole discussion about the amulet a lot less important. It's not as good for political reasons, but its still pretty sweet. Also, I'd like to put clairvoyance on the wish list for spells. If I find a way to learn an area well enough, or get Egg to learn it, then I can spy on the guild and prisoners and such quite well. --[[Special:Contributions/74.68.100.149|74.68.100.149]]
:: Well, I've got a plan for him if he starts crafting that may, in the long term. Basically, just keep track of his experience spent on crafting and I'll take care of the rest. -gm
:: Considering what he's been doing for the past three weeks, if he's getting a level it's going to be in Professional. From here on out, though, it'll probably be Wizzy since he's going to be doing a lot more research and mage stuff and a lot less setting up of a business. -gm
::: Yeah, looking at the untapped potential from level 1-3 and what I gain from level 4 spells, I think I like taking professional now. Give him some ranks in diplomacy please! I'll have to have a little chat with him about being so frank around the other PCs--I think its best that he and I sugar-coat ideas before we present them to any of the damn hippies in the party. His totally reasonable comment about selling food caused all sorts of silly moral issues for the party! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: For the record, Mose wouldn't have any qualms with you guys selling the rarer/luxury foodstuffs to the upper class at a premium. Seems like there would be more money to be made in hard-to-get stuffs for the rich than overcharging the penniless. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
::::: I'm sure that's what he was suggesting and Al just took it out of context ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Actually, there is a *lot* more to be had selling basic foodstuff than luxury items. Scarce items with low demand becoming more scarce is nothing compared to basic staples going from reasonably common to scarce. Fact is, prices are going to skyrocket with or without your help: Egg isn't creating the opportunity, just taking advantage of it. That's just the nature of the siege economy, and you can be sure that when the Thieves' Guild start shipping food in, it won't be to open a soup kitchen. -gm
: Well, you painted the grain supplies as in good shape so I assumed people in the town were good with basic foodstuffs, etc. Hence my thought that right now the townies would want to pay more for scarce luxury foods and wine versus the simpler stuff. Anyway, that's Mose's preference to try to make money off the rich rather than the poor, if possible. :) -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
:: Given that the cities pop has reduced by half at least and the fact that the city didn't really make much of an effort getting grain to the refugees anyways, this is a good point. Seems like the grain reserves should be well stocked for some time. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Unless it's been sitting long enough that spoilage is a factor. If this world had an equivalent to John Adams, I'd say the sensible thing would be to charge for the food so a few people don't take all of it and hoard it to resell at a much higher price than even you guys would charge, but I doubt Mose or anyone else has had a grounding in Economics (Germain might, except that the discipline as we know it probably doesn't exist on the Mainland, except in a very primitive form). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: All that is true, there is a grain ration being doled to citizens. In the camps, however, (or what is left of them) prices for even common food is huge, not that anyone has any money to spend on them anyway. Non-grain staples - food, butter, booze - are going to be expensive even inside the city, although the reopened smuggling corridors and drastically reduced population help with that some. -gm

== Spell Wish List ==
* Second Level
** Obscure Object
** Magic Mouth
** Misdirection
** Detect Thoughts
* Third Level
** Explosive Runes
** Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
** Illusory Script
* Fourth Level
** Magic Eye
** Detect Scrying
** Locate Creature

== Audit ==

You might want to audit this guy, decent chance he has messed up skill ranks, with prodigy and open minded. -gm
: This is doubly true now, he just gained two levels and picked up another open minded feat. He has one more knowledge to learn of your choice. -gm

* '''[Fixed]''' Missing one skill point (probably because his sp/level went up at 4. should be: 48(1st) + 6(2nd) + 6(3rd) + 7(4th) + 5(feat))
* '''[Fixed, with Gusto]''' Characters start with Ubrekti + Regional languages, so Egg is either missing a language or a skill point
:: I think I originally had Ubrekti as his birth language, before it was discovered that he was of hakani descent.

== Fitting In ==
We'll have to see how we want to play it. I had a similar discussion with Slitherrr about *****************, his coming cohort. Basically, do you want to play and manage every part of the guy, have me run the guys personality but control him in combat, or have me control everything with you giving general commands?

Likewise, advancement - you or me? I would think he obviously sticks to Wizard, though depending on what kind of work you have him doing early on it might make sense RP wise to take a second level in professional, as well as just being a good add. Prof 2/Wizard X gets a +1 AC bonus and a net of +4 skill points, over Prof 1/Wizard X, I believe? Prof 4/Wizard X is a much more substantial investment in the nonmagical side of thing, which is costing probably two spell levels for +2 AC bonus, a net of +12 skill points and Uncanny Dodge.

: Really up to you. I'm sure you don't want to play another character, so I'll make the decisions for him in game time. He's pretty much a squishy buffer in MMO terms, so in general I expect he'll stick close to LE and cast buffs. As for advancement, I'd say straight wizard unless there is a really compelling reason to go prof 2. Multiclassing casters is a lot harsher than martial characters except for a splash. Also, he'll have plenty of skill points, and Germ is happy to have a knowledge guy around, which wizards do fine at.
: Germ in general would prefer a cohort that pushes back and has his own opinions--he's not looking for a yes-man, he's looking for another set of eyes and a sharp mind to bounce ideas off of. So in general I'll make the decisions to lighten your load, and you veto anything you don't like. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Talk:Proposed Feats

2011-03-02T15:09:58Z

96.5.63.21:

Oh, I'd forgotten all about these! Maybe I'll give them another look and approve some. -gm

The first two sprung forth from my twisted brain, the second two I found after a bit of searching on the D&D wiki. I tried to model the first two on the Cleave chain. Since Cleave only happens on the relatively constricted event of an opponent's death, the Great Trip is more useful, so I put in the -4 per extra opponent restriction to try to even it up. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:Of course, the continued -4 per opponent makes it start to be pretty useless after a couple of enemies. Perhaps Grand Trip should reduce it to -2. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

Hey Msallen, Matt said to point the combat intimidation feat to you. We're both of the opinion that it's overpowered as written, with a further addendum from him that a free action adds a whole lot of dice rolls. By itself, though, the Fighter class skill Intimidate could use a boost, like Improved Feint does with that. Perhaps cut it to making Intimidate checks as a move action, and ditch the demoralize all who are threatened capability? It's hard to weigh the effect of the saving throw and attack roll debuff against the DC loss and ability to perform sneak attacks, so such a feat might need a little more oomph to roll with that crowd. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: I think I'm with you guys. Actually looking at it briefly, the intimidate combat use might be better than bluff. I only have limited info here at work, but it looks like this is the breakdown:
:: demoralize: shaken (-2 attacks, saves, and ability checks) for 1 round
:: feint: flat-footed (no dex bonus, sneak attackable) for the ''feinting player's next attack''
: I'm not sure if I've got it wrong, but it looks like bluff only works for the player using the skill, whereas everyone gets the benefit of the intimidate use. In which case, I would think that making the demoralize a move action will bring it in line in terms of power with the feint feat. The AoE intimidate, and perhaps also a 'flat-footed for a round' bluff feat, would be good improved versions.
:: Good point, I didn't even see the player-only bit. It still means lots of rolls, but so does feint--gm will just have to hope nobody uses either of them! -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Me either :( I just took it off my 'feats for germain' list because it went from being a cool skill-based debuff to useless. I might have to work up my intimidate, on the other hand. On the subject of rolling, it would be perfectly reasonable to house-rule opposed checks so that one side is just a target number. Ie. feinting could just be a bluff check against a target number 10 + opponents sense motive. I never much liked opposed checks in 3.5 for statistical reasons.
:::: Changed into new proposed feats. Combat Intimidation is now two feats, with the second giving the option of debuffing all threatened opponents as a standard action. I made an improved Improved Feint in the same vein. Making it a standard action is provisional, because that would tend to mean that your best fighter (the guy with all those ranks in Intimidate) has to spend his action debuffing. It may be better suited as a move action. And yeah, opposed checks are annoying both statistically and dice-wise, but they also allow those clutch "I succeeded by rolling a 20 when he rolled a 1!" moments-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::: Do you think requiring sneak attack on greater feint makes sense? I would do BaB + imp. feint instead. Here is the pathfinder version of the feat, which is basically identical to ours (PF gets rid of flat-footed, but you can sneak attack anyone denied dex bonus). --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] 11:46, 29 December 2009 (EST)
::::: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/greater-feint-combat---final
::::::That's what flat-footed is, essentially, so I guess Pathfinder just opted for the simpler route of not using a special name for the particular situation. One thing that FGII really needs are state tickers that automatically decrement effects when the appropriate initiative comes up. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::::: Well, they kept flat-footed, and most of the other conditions and status effects, so I'm not really sure what their M.O. is. It looks like they gave flat-footed some more effects about opportunity attacks and such that they didn't want to make part of feint? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] 13:50, 29 December 2009 (EST)

EDIT WARS! You mother fuckers are going to play around and get this shit locked.
:: The bluff/feint also takes a standard action, so you give up one attack to make the next one flat-footed so it really does not add any new rolls (it replaces one or more attacks with one simple contested check - bluff vs. sense motive) Now, the whole shaken thing is a feature of the intimidate skill as a standard action, which is - if anything - underpowered as hell. (Give up your attacks for ONE round of shaken? Please.) My biggest problem with making it a free action, or any action that is going to happen with regularity, is that the mechanics involves relatively* complex calculations that will eat up clock, in a way that feints do not, rather than any real game balance issues. (Since the shaken state lasts almost no time at all)
:: * relative to, say, AC or a simple skill check, which use values already on your sheet, relatively unchanging and consistent. The Intimidate mechanics means calculating values using two different sheets, then futzing through opposed rolls that are modifier-heavy. Will likely add 20% to the length of combats, no lie. It is for this reason, above all others, I do not like it. Balance wise it makes intimidating in combat actually something useful. (That 1 round duration is the pits) -gm
:: "Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)."
:: Now, that doesn't sound like that much, but imagine it in our last boss fight. A boss kobold, a boss goblin, vanilla goblins, and vanilla kobolds, all with different values for CR and Wis and, in some cases, modifiers for size and fear that change from *round to round*. It's not that such calculations are really difficult, but in aggregate I have a feeling it will bog down the already laggy 3.5e combats. -gm
: Why do edits confuse you so much? In any case, this isn't the complaint I was thinking it was. There probably isn't any way to make 3.5 less confusing or annoying in this respect. 4.0 pretty much fixed it, and pathfinder made it a little more standardized (with the 10+(level/2)+wis mod model more heavily used), but 3.5 your fucked. If you don't want to deal with this stuff, just scrap the feats. That said, as a general debuf as a move action, both are usable feats. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] 11:21, 29 December 2009 (EST)
:: Maybe rather than debuffing a whole squad for an action, put a condition on it (like, killed an ally), and make it last X number of turns, or something. So, for the language, "When slaying an opponent, you may opt to make an Intimidate check against a DC of (10 + opponent's Will save + fear modifiers) against all opponents you threaten. Any opponents who fail this check will be shaken for 3 turns.". Keeping track of which opponents are still shaken will be a pain, but at least the check won't be happening every turn. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

:: Balance isn't really the issue to me, not on a day's reflection. It's not too annoying or too confusing in general, but making the intimidate into a free action will cause these sort of calcs to be made regularly/every attack (horrible) rather than situational (great!) and having to keep track of a ton of different statuses is pretty much a nightmare scenario when you're talking about already running upwards of 30 different oppoenents. Germain has made good use of the Feint before, and it really doesn't drag things out. Gil doing Fear + Attack every turn? Much more of a slow down. . . I admit, when first proposed, I was worried about game balance, but looking at it and thinking about it (1 round?!?!) I think, if anything, that the feat makes that intimidate ability useful/up-to-grade level, but I just think combat is too slow as it is. So, yeah, my only real problem is I think this feat will detract from player's enjoyment because it will (1) slow down combats because of tons more rolling, (2) slow down combat because of a lot more maths, and (3) generate monumentally more bookkeeping for me, which will lower the FPS of the entire session. -gm
:: As to the edit thing - this is like the *third time* I've had to try *more than twice* to post the same comments. -gm
::: WRT the feat, you do know that this is all in keeping with the 'improved feint' feat, which lets you feint as a move action? So, with either feat, you could both feint/demoralize and attack every round. Not that it changes anything you say, but it wasn't clear to me whether you understood that --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] 15:23, 29 December 2009 (EST)

:: Alright! Let's (finally) take a look at this page.
:: * Great Trip. Nice feat, actually. Needs higher BaB Req (+5-6?) and possibly Dex instead of strength. I can see, however, where this could potentially become abusive when paired with Combat Reflexes. (Hell, might even be worth making that a prereq, as well)
:: * Intimidate Feats: Nice. Well balanced without being excessively dice rolly. I would not even mind seeing Imp. Combat Intimidation have a radius range, maybe at the cost of making it a full action? Hmmm.
:: * Greater Feint : Doesn't seem terribly unbalanced, just seems like one more cooldown thing I'll have to keep up with in combat. Hmm.
:: * Defensive Trip : This one is not bad, but I'd prefer only one of the two trip feats go live.
:: **Agreed. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:: * Inspiring Leader : AoE Buffs are spells or class abilities only. :)
:: * Instant Awakening : I like the idea, but the mechanics are puzzling to me. Why a REFLEX save to wake up instantly, for example?
:: ** Reflexes kind of represent a second-sense idea, where you start moving before you're fully aware. It makes perfect sense to me. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:: *** Ah, I can see that. I was thinking more will, because it's a snapping to awareness sort of thing. I guess either are alright, but whatevs, it's a workable concept, one way or the other. -gm
:: **** Well, I always saw the snapping to awareness part of Will as more of a "fighting off" the effect that's causing the altered mental state, rather than just becoming aware that it exists. For me, if I were trying to come awake when something is trying to keep me asleep, it'd be Will, but if I were trying to come awake in reaction to something happening around me, it'd be Reflex (assuming that it isn't Spot or Listen, but you know what I mean.) -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:: ***** Ah, yeah, that makes sense.
:: * Spear and Shield : I love this feat more than chocolate, as is.
:: * Pole Fighting: Don't mind it, like the idea. Think, probably, weapon focus in a specific polearm would make me happier with it.

----
Knockback Kick: The unarmed man's Improved Bull Rush. No +4 to the roll, but no requirement to follow the defender, and option to use Dexterity. Requires that the attack be unarmed, though, but I couldn't decide if that warranted further bonuses, since a person taking this feat probably already has compensatory abilities to make unarmed combat less of a pain. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:Actually, scratch that, the non-moving thing means neither provoke AoO from other people, so it's probably perfect balance-wise. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: I wonder how complex this would be "in the moment." Seems like it might be complicated? <math>Insert formula here</math>
:: No more complicated than a standard Bull Rush, which is initiate attack by stepping into square (provoking AoO; AoO by non-participants has 25% chance of hitting the guy they're not targeting), perform Str check (size- and stability-modified, +4 if have Imp Bull Rush). If failure, move back into original square. If success, move opponent back up to five feet for every five by which attacker's roll exceeded defender's roll (and move yourself for every extra five feet), and provoke AoO with each square (can choose how far to send back). Imp Bull Rush prevents the defender from getting an AoO and adds +4 to the roll. Thinking about it in these terms may mean that the Kick is a bit powerful, since it prevents all those secondary AoOs. Perhaps it could be taken with a minus to the opposed check, since the attacker doesn't continue actively pushing against the defender? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

Headhunter's Cloak

2011-03-01T20:35:12Z

96.5.63.21: Created page with "{{stub}} A gift given to Gilearl by the Dwarves of Kred. * +1 luck bonus to saves * 10 Charges (Recharges daily at sunrise.) *** Free Action: (1 Charge) (Self Only) *** Freedom..."

{{stub}}

A gift given to Gilearl by the Dwarves of Kred.

* +1 luck bonus to saves
* 10 Charges (Recharges daily at sunrise.)
*** Free Action: (1 Charge) (Self Only)
*** Freedom of Movement (1 round)
*** Haste (1 round)
*** Displacement (1 round)
** Standard Action: (5 Charges)
*** Dimension Door (Self Only)

Talk:Sidhe (Language)

2011-03-01T19:12:51Z

96.5.63.21:

I joked about not asking about it in MFC, but really, it's going to come up. How protective would Anise be about teaching this language? Does nobody know it (and/or have written records of it) just because Elves have been gone for so long, or because they (or someone) made an effort to wipe it out? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:I can't think of any reason she would be protective of the language... She's fairly practical, but she has also been very tightly bottled up for the last several years so might have some.. emotional issues to work through. -[[User:Feantari|Feantari]]
::THEN KIB IS FUCKING LEARNING IT HIS FIRST FIELD MARHSALL LEVEL, BITCHES. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: You need Sidhe language for that? -gm

As far as that goes, the page doesn't actually say nobody on the Mainland knows it, only that it can only be gained through learning (excepting our two PC Elves). Are there records extant on the Mainland in Sidhe, and maybe even one or two non-native, academic Sidhe scholars who know the language? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: From the silverwalkers experience, there still seem to be a good number of important and not so important people know elven. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:: Yeah, to each his own. Egg, for example, learned it at university. It's pretty common among a certain set (sages) and virtually unknown everywhere else. -gm

Related, Kib's background indicates that he takes notes on the languages he learns in his journal, but he wouldn't necessarily for the sake of keeping Anise's identity secret, or alternatively, maybe he would note it in a code, or get some way of casting ''secret page'', or both. I would actually imagine this would be less of a big deal in this campaign, and instead have his journal be a cool object that could pop up in a future (?) campaign/story. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

Talk:Sidhe (Language)

2011-03-01T19:11:21Z

96.5.63.21:

I joked about not asking about it in MFC, but really, it's going to come up. How protective would Anise be about teaching this language? Does nobody know it (and/or have written records of it) just because Elves have been gone for so long, or because they (or someone) made an effort to wipe it out? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:I can't think of any reason she would be protective of the language... She's fairly practical, but she has also been very tightly bottled up for the last several years so might have some.. emotional issues to work through. -[[User:Feantari|Feantari]]
::THEN KIB IS FUCKING LEARNING IT HIS FIRST FIELD MARHSALL LEVEL, BITCHES. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: You need Sidhe language for that? -gm

As far as that goes, the page doesn't actually say nobody on the Mainland knows it, only that it can only be gained through learning (excepting our two PC Elves). Are there records extant on the Mainland in Sidhe, and maybe even one or two non-native, academic Sidhe scholars who know the language? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: From the silverwalkers experience, there still seem to be a good number of important and not so important people know elven. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]

Related, Kib's background indicates that he takes notes on the languages he learns in his journal, but he wouldn't necessarily for the sake of keeping Anise's identity secret, or alternatively, maybe he would note it in a code, or get some way of casting ''secret page'', or both. I would actually imagine this would be less of a big deal in this campaign, and instead have his journal be a cool object that could pop up in a future (?) campaign/story. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

Talk:Main Page

2011-02-22T13:12:43Z

96.5.63.21:

Does FGII on the GM side save all the profile pictures of characters? I'd like to stick the rest of Gnob's Folly in templates, because they're all too lazy to do it. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: Yes, it does.

----
While we're on the subject, what is the Mainland's interaction with the spell ''Planar Binding''? The whole subject of the Planes is pretty fuzzy on this wiki, but obviously there is some sort of interaction, if Thoven's Flame Disciple class is to have any real meaning. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

[http://code.google.com/p/awesometome/downloads/list Tomes]

Cleared out tons of stuff we weren't paying attention to anymore. Also, evidently some Russian SEO slipped through without us noticing. It's gone now. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 19:13, 21 February 2011 (EST)

Talk:DireCiple

2011-02-21T19:47:14Z

96.5.63.21:

Parenthetical? So it's available to copyeditors? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: Only particularly evil ones. Like Sarah.
:: BWAHAHAHA says Sarah.

{{talk|Sorcerer only at least for prereq? Not sure what a flat "Bonus spell" would mean otherwise?|[[User:Mattie|Mattie]] 15:24, 17 January 2011 (EST)}}
: Anyone who can "cast a spell without preparation." So, bards also. And, presumably, that divine class from eberron that does the same with cleric spells. -gm

==Parenthetical Experience==
So wait. She gains DireCiple levels ''alongside'' of normal levels? Because the only other alternative I can think of is that she gains levels at 1/100th the rate of everyone else, and that is even more crazy. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: Every time she gains experience, she gain 1% of that total in the shadow xp pool. So, even if she doesn't do anything in game to warrant sxp, her pool will still grow.
:: So she can do things to gain parenthetical experience directly. Gotcha. How is her advancement figured, then? Is she going to have to gain as much parenthetical experience as she would normal experience to get a DireCiple level? If she gains a level in something else, does the experience requirement for her next DireCiple level go up? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Maybe this discussion comes from out-of-band and I don't know what is going on (wouldn't be the first time!), but I thought this was a normal prestige class with a normal impact on leveling in every respect except the (xp) rules. For (xp), I thought that the rule was if you are close enough to leveling that your (xp) would put you over the next level, you could spend that (xp) to level in this class. Other than that, it's just business as usual with respect to leveling and such. --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
:::: As the Sages once opined, "You can't shake the devil's hand and say you are only kidding." The acquisition of this prestige class represents LE not merely "exploring" or "examining" the mysterious darkness within her, but "embracing" it. Her choice of "Phantasmal Killer," IMHO, fits perfectly in with this. Once you take the first step on the path, even if you never again commit acts of evil, slay another one of your kind, or anything of the sort, it's going to continue to grow, albeit slowly. Additionally, in a rules mechanic way, it allows LE to *always* have the option to pick up DireCiple.
:::: 1. If you have enough Shadow XP to go up a level, you may turn the SXP into normal XP, but *must* take a level of DireCiple.
:::: 2. If you have enough so that Shadow XP alone would take you from one level to the next, the pool empties.
::::: Going to go with a 1st level example to make the math easier. Slitherrr knows I'm not great at clarifying. ex: A first level darktouched person picks up 10 shadow XP. When he hits 990 XP, he can dump it into his pool and gain a DireCiple level. If he gains 1000 xp (enough to ding with no other xp), then the pool force dumps.

So, the higher you go in DireCiple, the more shadow XP you gain, and so the easier it is to advance in direciple. (And, possibly, the harder it is NOT to advance, since this class will *eventually* start causing alignment shifts down towards Chaotic Evil. I know what levels that happens at, but I ain't tellin)
:Sounds EEEE-veeee-ill. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::If necessary, LE has a buddy she can go evil with. Hopefully we won't have to murder Mose ;) --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Hopefully we won't have to be vanquished by Mose.
::: FTFY. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]]
:::: A Fully Operation LE vs. A Fully Operational Mose would be a close fight. Of course, a truly cunning evil adversary is never going to allow a Showdown at High Noon, are they? -gm
::::: And I say this because a Fully Operation LE could pretty much kill any other member of the party in 1v1 PvP. Kimi *might* have a chance by the numbers. -gm

Talk:Ebony Reaver

2011-02-15T17:46:46Z

96.5.63.21:

Theres a lot about the names and details of this story that make me uncomfortable :| --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
: Hmmm?
:: Peteran named Sayid uses a magical black scythe during a revolution to overthrown the government? Why would it make me nervous that we now have said weapon? Once bitten, twice shy? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Eh, you don't think Sayid is a pretty common Petaran name? that was my assumption.

Talk:Field Marshall (3.5)

2010-12-14T14:40:50Z

96.5.63.21:

+5 BaB to +6 raises the 2/3's (Rogue, Professional, Cleric) min level to 8 from 7. Which you're probably fine with, just giving an FYI. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: Raises from 7 to 8 you mean? I'm ok with that, considering the relatively low number of skills required compared to the strength of the special abilities, I think getting putting it off is ok. Also, I think it makes more sense for a Field Marshall to require a stronger martial background than a mere +5. -gm
:: To 8 from 7 is what I said, silly. LEARN TO READ. But yeah, I can dig it.-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

I'm trying to think of a good way to simulate the Commanding Presence benefit to see what kind of damage output it amounts to within that 20' radius. +2 isn't a whole lot on a per-person basis, so the benefit of this class is really small unless the PC can find a way to cram a bunch of allies into that 10' radius, which is just barely enough to have flanking PCs within the radius (but only if the enemy in question is size M or smaller). Do we have any other good, Martial, 5-level prestige classes to compare to for balance? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: I would suggest comparing it to the progression of similar bard songs? However, consider also that the bard songs are modal (you must pick the bonus to apply per song) rather than total, like the field marshall. (all bonuses, all the time!) -gm

----
Killed a bunch of interesting stuff here that's available in the history. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 00:32, 12 December 2010 (EST)

Talk:The Azure Geese

2010-12-03T15:28:24Z

96.5.63.21:

What is this mess? Egg already recruited your six followers out of the refugee camps? -gm
:Also, what's up with a follower having a hero array and a PC level? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:: Damn you, you sent me an email telling me to make 6 24-point characters with the following classes: 2x professional, 2x fighter, 2x rogue. Its not my fault that pills and liquor have addled your brain and you can't remember what's going on anymore! --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]]
::: Haha, I agree. Though, in fact, it was probably the booze that made me say PC classes.
::: In fact, I was actually confused because I made a post to the wiki last night that didn't seem to take where I said Cohort = PC Class; Follower = NPC class. Just take the same point buy, and make them Warriors & Experts, but probably not adepts or aristocrats. This actually shouldn't screw up your plans and party too much.
::: In fact, I *do* appreciate not having to come up with personalities and such. -gm

Talk:The Azure Geese

2010-12-03T12:54:11Z

96.5.63.21: Created page with "What is this mess? Egg already recruited your six followers out of the refugee camps? -gm"

What is this mess? Egg already recruited your six followers out of the refugee camps? -gm

Talk:Flame Disciple

2010-11-04T14:41:18Z

96.5.63.21:

Draft moved to the top. Other stuff at the bottom, some hidden in collapsible tables.-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
==Draft==
Alright, this is what I've come up with. Saving throws are blanked, but I expect Will is strong, and Fort and Ref are weak. I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary, naturally, but that's my initial inclination. d8 HD is clearly far too much, but considering the HP sacrificing mechanic and the severely reduced caster progression, d6 is very reasonable. I ditched the "becoming a half elemental" idea - sort of - instead migrating that ability to the familiar to give some kind of ability gain on the even (caster increase) levels. Increased the spell prereqs to bring in line with other specialist prestige classes. Persistent damage is something I try to avoid for sanity sake, but liked having a offensive defense ability and tried to compensate with a more potent single round of damage. Finally, added a mechanic that *might* be a tad to complicated (but I don't think so) in order to create a "fire storm" sort of mechanic that is still tied to spell slots rather than special abilities.

Input encouraged.

{{talk|indent=2|With the Nova ability as it stands, there's a good argument for Fort to be the strong save. We could argue that a flame disciple isn't really as concerned about self-control as a normal sorc/wizzie. |[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 15:20, 28 October 2010 (EDT)}}
: That's kind of why I gave the Attribute Bonus to saves. I'm down with making fort one of the strong saves, but I'd probably want to drop the bonus, which really is just one more layer of complexity anyway. Hmm. Also, FWIW, the caster has an innate fire resist of 15 by the time she can nova, which would certainly apply to any damage. -gm
:: Right, with the resistance, the Nova doesn't do horrible damage. At the higher levels, though, a successful fort save becomes the difference between taking (on average) 22ish damage, or taking zero. I'm totally fine with no attribute bonuses to save, for the complexity reason, too.-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Also, note that I said "the" strong save, not "a" strong save. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: Ahh, of course. I like it. -gm

{{draft}}
'''Description:''' In Flux

'''Prerequisites:''' the ability to cast four arcane spells with the fire descriptor, one of which must be at least 3rd-level or greater offensive Fire spell. 7 ranks of Spellcraft, 5 ranks of Knowledge(Arcana), and 3 ranks of Knowledge(The Planes). Must not have an elemental creature type (wholly or partially).

'''Hit Dice: d6'''

'''Skill Points:''' 2+INT

'''Class Skills:''' Spot, Listen, Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (The Planes), Spellcraft

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|+
|-
! × Level !! Natural AC Bonus !! BaB !! Fort !! Ref !! Will !! Ability
|-
! 1
| +0 || +1 || +2 || +0 || +0 || ''Soul Furnace'', ''Flame Resistance'', ''Fire Mastery''
|-
! 2
| +1 || +1 || +3 || +0 || +0 || ''Resistant Familiar'',''Inner Fire'' +1 to arcane caster level for spell progression
|-
! 3
| +1 || +2 || +3 || +1 || +1 || ''Nova Channel''
|-
! 4
| +2 || +2 || +4 || +1 || +1 || ''Elemental Familiar'', +1 to arcane caster level for spell progression
|-
! 5
| +2 || +3 || +4 || +1 || +1 || ''Lingering Flames''
|}

''Fire Mastery'' - All spells cast by the Flame Disciple with the fire descriptor do additional fire damage equal to caster's Flame Disciple level.

''Fire Resistance'' - The Flame Disciple develops flame resistance equal to five times his or her Disciple level. This does not stack with fire resistance from other sources.

''Inner Fire'' - The caster's soul furnace has reached such intensity that he or she may ignite flammable materials with nothing but a touch as a standard action. If the item is in someone's possession or equipped my someone, then they are entitled to a reflex save to avoid the effect. If the item is magical, it is entitled to a save to avoid the effect. In both cases, the save is DC 10 + Flame Disciple Level + Caster Attribute Mod.
{{talk|
Should this be a reflex save, or a touch attack? The latter has a bit more precedence as a "Disarm (Grabbing Items)" action, and could be modeled on those rules (with modifiers to represent the fact that the FD only has to touch the object, not grab and pull it)|
[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 22:36, 1 November 2010 (EDT)}}
: Good question. Touch attack that triggers AoO might be closer to the truth, or even a sunder attack. If that doesn't make the ability too much more complex, I'd say that's a positive change. -gm

''Resistant Familiar'' - If the caster has a familiar, it shares the caster's innate fire resistance if it is within 30 feet.

''Soul Furnace (Sp)'' - For fire-based spells, the caster may sacrifice some of his or her own life-force to empower them. The caster may sacrifice up to one hit points per spell level as a free action when casting a spell, adding 1d4 fire damage for each hit point so sacrificed. This effect is limited to spell levels less than or equal to the disciple level, and may only be used on spells with the fire descriptor.
{{talk|
Is Soul Furnace applicable to Nova?|
[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 22:36, 1 November 2010 (EDT)}}
: No. Soul Furnace applies specifically to casting of spells. Nova is a supernatural ability fueled by spell slots, but *not* a spell. -gm

''Elemental Familiar'' - If the caster has a familiar, that familiar gains the "Elemental (Fire)" template, Fire Immunity and Cold Vulnerability. Any natural attacks now deal +1 fire damage in addition to damage from any other sources. In addition, the familiar gains a fire breath weapon, once per day, with 15' range, dealing 1d4+1 points of damage for every point caster attribute bonus. The DC for this breath weapon is 15.

Elemental Traits:
# Darkvision out to 60 feet.
# Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
# Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
# Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life. (Ed Note: The soul is "burnt away" by the transformation.)
# Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
# Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
# Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

''Nova Channel (Sp)'' - The caster's mastery over her inner fire has reached such levels that the caster may us it to act as a conduit directly to the Elemental Plane of Fire, sacrificing spell castings to fuel a pyrotechnic blast from within the caster's own body. As a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, the Flame Disciple may sacrifice a spell to generate a 20' radius ball of fire, centered on (and affecting) herself. The damage dealt by this blast is equal to 1d4 + Ability Modifier for every level of the sacrificed spell. A reflex saving throw, DC equal to casting a comparable level fire spell cast by the Flame Disciple, is allowed for half damage. The caster make a fortitude save, with a bonus equal to her attribute modifier, to suffer half damage. The Flame Disciple may not sacrifice a spell of a higher spell level than she has flame disciple levels.

''Lingering Flames (Metamagic)'' - The caster becomes so in tune with fire type spells that he or she gains the ability to increase the duration of instantaneous spells. If the caster takes a full round action to cast a fire spell, its duration may be changed from "instantaneous" to any number of rounds of the caster's choosing. For every round the spell is extended, the spell's effective level is increased by one. If Soul Furnace is used in conjunction with this ability, the increased damage must be paid for *each round* the caster wishes to have increased damage.

Example: A Burning Hands (level 1) spell cast as a third level spell would burn from the casters fingertips for three rounds: The instantaneous duration, plus one round for each additional spell level. Any creature in the area of effect during the caster's turn, or entering into the area of effect on its own turn, takes the damage. (Much like Ice Storm of Fire Storm spells). Likewise, a fireball (level 3) cast as a fourth level spell would do exist for the round of casting plus one round.
{{talk|
The Soul Furnace question applies here, as well (to wit, does this apply to nova?). Also, does the caster have to maintain the spell in any way after the initial full round of cast?|
[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 10:03, 2 November 2010 (EDT)}}
: Nova has a duration of instantaneous. As hinted at above, since it us a supernatural ability instead of a spell, that means no metamagic feats, either, so the lingering flames ability also cannot be used on nova. -gm

----

==More Numbers==

{| class="wikitable" style="width:50%;"
!colspan=7|Average Dmg(resisted dmg) as Caster Stat (x) vs Sacrificed Spell Level (y)
|-
! !! 0!! 1!! 2!! 3!! 4!! 5
|-
| 1|| 3.5 (1.75)|| 5.5 (2.75)|| 7.5 (3.75)|| 9.5 (4.75)|| 11.5 (5.75)|| 13.5 (6.75)
|-
| 2|| 7.0 (3.5)|| 10.0 (5.0)|| 13.0 (6.5)|| 16.0 (8.0)|| 19.0 (9.5)|| 22.0 (11.0)
|-
| 3|| 10.5 (5.25)|| 14.5 (7.25)|| 18.5 (9.25)|| 22.5(11.25)|| 26.5(13.25)|| 30.5(15.25)
|-
| 4|| 14.0 (7.0)|| 19.0 (9.5)|| 24.0 (12.0)|| 29.0 (14.5)|| 34.0 (17.0)|| 39.0 (19.5)
|-
| 5|| 17.5 (8.75)|| 23.5(11.75)|| 29.5(14.75)|| 35.5(17.75)|| 41.5(20.75)|| 47.5(23.75)
|}

-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

If we consider this a showcase ability for the FD, I think this may be a tad underpowered. Consider a sorc 8/FD 5 could cast a fireball (level 3 spell) and do 10d6+5 damage at a range of up to 400 ft + something crazy, or he could nova with a 15' radius with a level 4 spell and do (4d4+(cha bonus, let's say three, times four) damage (he can't even do a level 5 spell at this level, yet). The latter is clearly a lot less, for the sacrifice of a higher-level spell slot and the ability to damage at range AND the larger radius of the fireball (15' vs 20'), although with the benefit of no components (which implies the ability to nova while bound) and no casting time (vs a standard action).

I think we could solve these problems by scaling radius with FD level (or rather, with level of spell sacrificed). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: I agree, I think that radius of 5' per spell level sacrificed is a good one, too. Starting to make the ability kind of rules-heavy, but I guess that's just the nature of the beast. -gm

: Scaling the radius by FD level is not a bad idea. I'm not sure it's that underpowered considering one of the trade offs (nova damage) is mitigated by resist (15, 20, or 25 depending on level) Pete could shrug off level 1 or 2 novas with failed saves, and even lvl 3 ones with a successful one. Also: I think you're misreading the damage? It's not Lvld4 + MOD, it's (d4+MOD)/Lvl. -gm
:: Yeah, I was factoring that in. The damage calculations in the table are (d4+mod)*lvl, even if I might have said it the wrong way up there. I'm just wondering if the ability to cast instantly with no components is worth the difference in levels. Consider that a level 3 nova is 22.5 damage (assuming +3 from cha) in a 15' radius on average. At the same minimum level (6 sorc + 3 FD = caster level 7, if he goes straight for FD), he's getting 7d6 + 3 from his fireball, averaging 27.5 in a 20' radius (with more variance than the nova). If we go to level 4 (as above), then we're at a minimum of sorc 8 FD 4, so a 10d6 + 4 = 39ish avg fireball vs. 29ish (again, +3, a +4 makes it 34) avg nova, with the fireball in a larger radius, at range, AND using a level lower spell slot, at the cost of being a standard action rather than a free (or swift, more likely, since I doubt you want this more than once per turn). That's the argument, without considering the self-damage aspect. My thought is that making the range scale would give it a usefulness that none of the other fire spells have, without having to crank the damage up to stupid levels. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Ahh. FWIW, I'd suggest that by getting to Nova, the character would have at least gotten 2 points of their primary attribute from level gains and probably have a +4, but I doubt that's much of a difference. Additionally, I think that the damage output for this ability *should* be less than a spell cast of the same level sacrificed, though the question of "how much less" is in play.
::: 1. Damage drop is balanced by versatility. The FD can scale damage depending on threat, or be more discriminate about what spell levels to lose.
::: 2. Fireball is the grandfathered-in-overpowered spell for that level and isn't a great comparison. How does the first level nova compare to burning hands, or the second level one to Flaming Sphere? Pretty well, I'd argue. Possibly better. If there is some damage-scale-dropoff at the ceiling spell levels... so be it. The re-purposing of low level, borderline obsolete spells might be value enough.
::: 3. The ability *should* do less damage, with less variance, because of the risks involved in using it.
::: 4. As you indicate, it is a standard action. Unlike a cast spell, it does not require V, S, or M components or, most importantly for trying to drop a FB on yourself when swarmed, does not trigger attacks of opportunity.
::: 5. Did I mention it doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity? Being snarky, sure, but to me, this is the core strength of the ability. Imagine Thoven surrounded by 5 kobolds. He can cast a FB on himself and wipe them out, but he has an AC of 11 and is going to have to shrug of five free attacks before he gets that chance, and then has to succeed on a concentration check based on the cumulative amount of damage suffered by those AoOs.
:::: I agree that the non-AoO nature is a big gain. I'll run the numbers on Flaming Hands and Burning Sphere and see what I get, there. I'll run it on Fire Shield, too, but that will have a huge caveat that the damage is reactive, not AoE (plus a shielding affect against cold/fire damage, to make things more complicated). Basically, the question isn't whether it should do as much damage as a fireball (because it definitely shouldn't), but whether there is a vast enough difference in the damages to justify tweaking the nova a bit despite its advantages. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::::: Ok. For the same 5 FD/8 Sorc, but assuming +4 to caster attribute, Flaming Sphere (lvl 2 spell) is 120 damage average over a 10-round span at a range of up to 200' (2d6+5, move action, does not provoke AoO, and unresisted), vs 19 average per target from the same-level nova, but in one round, AoE, for a free action with no components, which compares favorably in the really short term, and it could conceivably do as much damage if enough enemies (6.4ish) can be crowded into that 15' radius circle (who don't resist). Burning Hands (level 1) does 7.5 avg (5d4 + 5) to 1/4 of the area of the nova, to which the nova compares very favorably (11.5 average damage to a larger area with a faster casting time). In other words, its low-level versions are very comparatively efficient, the gains of which then taper out. There aren't any other fire spells that do damage until FD5/Sorc 14 (the spell is Incendiary Cloud, though, which does a megafuckload of damage, basically an AoE version of Flaming Sphere that does twice as much damage and only allows save for half). This seems like an incentive for the FD to spam low-level spell slots for nova, and save his higher slots for empowered/maximized fireballs, which may or may not be fine, depending on how you want it to go. I'm still for making the range depend on level--given the numbers above, ranging it at, say, 5'/level sacrificed seems like it would keep the ability useful, but not as awesome for spamming, at lower levels, while slightly increasing its danger at the higher levels, making it more likely that the FD will find it worthwhile to sacrifice the slot and HP for such a cast. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: Well, I'd say most sorcs probably do not have a lot of metamagic feats because it takes a full round action to apply metamagic to sorc spells, and - as a casterphiliac - I find that the damage increasing feats are usually not worthwhile. An empowered fireball is like a, what, 5th level spell? Yeah, I'd rather cast cloudkill. Maximized fireball is a 6th level spell or something? I'm sure I could find something more useful with a 6th level spell slot than a 60 damage fireball that's only going to end up doing 30. -gm
:: For some reason, I read the metamagic feats as having one less addition than they actually had. That being said, we can compare empowered fireball vs. 5th-level nova-- 10sorc 5FD, probably a +4 in cha (possibly +5 if he really worked it) gives 5d4 + 20, averages to 32.5 damage. Empowered fireball is either (10d6 + 5) * 1.5 = 60 average, or 15d6 + 7 = 59 damage average *because I'm not sure when the empowerment works out), giving roughly double the average damage output without self-damage at range in a larger area for the same-level spell, at the cost of not being insta-cast with no components. At that level, a DC 20 defensive casting check is going to be made almost all the time (18 ranks in concentration, so a single con bonus point would be 100% success), so AoO is basically a non-issue. Nova would only win out as a last-ditch attack when bound/grappled/etc, which could conceivably be enough utility to make up for the deficit, but it's a hard question. That said, a 25' radius instead of a 20' radius adds 36 squares of potential targets, which could very easily make up in utility what fireball gains in damage. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Still using a overpowered spell as benchmark, only now jacked up. I like conceptually the larger radius for more powerful spells, it fits with the idea of it being a powerful burst of raw elemental power. But, yeah, I tend to think things like Casting Spells With No AoO is a huge add in terms of power scaling with other abilities.
:::: Oh, yeah, and if the caster dropped that empowered fireball on himself and the required reflex save (probably at -4) would probably kill him. So, not getting killed because the save plays to your strong save is also bonus. Plus the range. And, at the end of the day, it's better to have an ability get underpowered at the top end than be overpowered at the low end. I think? Maybe not. Some WoW person probably has reams of data about that, actually. -gm
::::: I'm comparing it to what is there, and I think whether it is actually overpowered is debatable--after all, Cone of Cold (level 5) does up to 15d6 damage to a 60' cone. That's the exact same as the empowered fireball if you don't count the FD bonus (and only seven less if you do), to more than twice the area (1260 ft^2 for the fireball vs. 2830 ft^2 for the cone of cold), as a standard action rather than a full-round action, with its only disadvantage being that you don't have the ability to toss the area an ungodly distance away. Chain lightning (level 6) does up to 20d6 damage to one guy, then half that to selected AoE within a 30' radius (only up to 20 targets, but you can intentionally miss your allies, a big deal with numbers that high) at the same ridiculous range as Firebal. I think the argument that Fireball is overpowered is really a non-starter, given all the other spells that balance right along with it. The AoO bit has a bit more teeth, but like I described up there, the FD/Sorc at these levels is going to make his Concentration roll to cast defensively and thus avoid AoO (level 12 gives 15 ranks, + 4 from Combat Casting, is 100% success for level 5 spells, and that's without Con bonuses, and at a lower level than the FD/Sorc even needs to be able to cast level 5 spells) unless he's being grappled, and even then he's still got a pretty good chance. Nova DOES get a big advantage while pinned, and that is very big, and probably the biggest advantage this ability gets, period, and definitely worth sacrificing some damage to make up for it (escaping smoker tongues, anyone?).
::::: For that last reason, I've stopped arguing for bumping up the damage for the last couple of exchanges--the numbers are there to underscore my current objective, which is solely on making radius depend on level sacrificed. My reasoning is that a static radius makes it too attractive to run around burning low-level spells every round, and never ever have a reason to burn a high-level spell, which seems like a waste of potential. It seems like, if every single other level 5 option is better except in extreme cases, and in those cases you can get 90% of the efficacy from a nova using a spell slot one or two levels lower, thus saving your Cloud Kill or Empowered Fireball for when you escape those bonds or get out of that grapple, why include it as an option? I don't know if 5'/FD level is optimal in the light of the numbers, because it really diminishes the lower-level damage capacity and only marginally increases the higher-level damage capacity, but since these things have to come in 5' increments, I don't really know any better progression, and it serves my point, which is to spread out the use of this ability among the full spectrum of its capability, rather than limiting its usefulness to a subset of itself. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::One thing that has just occurred to me, and that hasn't come up yet, is that the damage is heavily dependent on the caster attribute bonus, which can make things a little...crazy. The spread between +0 and +5 on the level 5 nova is 30 points, non-variable. A caster with a +5 from ability bonus, buffed with, say, Eagle's Splendor, gives an ability bonus of +7 and an average damage of 59.5 for a level 5 nova, a full 12 points higher, completely non-variable. It's something to think about. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::Of course, this could be self-balancing, with the self-damage aspect, so that might be a non-issue. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::: I actually considered a couple of other damage systems for nova. 2d4/level and 2d6/level might be better and simpler options, especially when coupled with scaled AoE, which I really like both conceptually and mechanically. -gm
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! Level reqs talk hidden 22:41, 1 November 2010 (EDT) (EDT)
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{{talk|
Looking at this just now, I notice that it takes 18 skill ranks (7 spellcraft, 5 know(arc), 6 know (the planes)) for a sorc to get here, making level 7 the first possible FD level for a sorc with no int bonus if he gets skills in nothing but those things (also, coincidentally, the level at which he can get fireball). Wizards have an easier time, of course--they could make level 6 (level 5 being the level for 3rd-level spells), with skill points to spare (15 skill ranks total out of a minimum of 16, and if course wizards will have an int bonus as well). I don't know which of the two fit better, or whether we want to think about requirements, I just wanted to throw that number-crunchy in since I'm waiting for a thing to finish and have little else better to do.
|[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 15:13, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
}}
: Sorc gets fireball at level 6. I factored it in to the requirements. are you suggesting that the skill reqs are too high?
:: I think they're probably exactly right for the sorc, since the sorc would be putting everything in to get it in at the minimum level, which is right about perfect. My bigger question is whether the Wizard should be able to get in earlier, since this class really seems more like a natural-connection-with-magic thing than a studied-for-a-long-time thing, anyway. I also don't know how that discrepancy would be changed, and it's only one level of difference, I was just adding it to the slew of data.-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: I don't really mind. Wizards having an easier time getting prestiges than sorcs is par for the course, excepting things like dragon disciple.
:::: Works for me, then. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
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! Numbers here hidden 10:32, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
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Just to note, here, vulnerability is huuuuge, especially with caster HP. Elementals get away with it because they have tons of d8 HD, and resist tons of other forms of damage, but the poor flame disciple is going to find himself completely down and out even on a successful reflex save and with a decent amount of cold resistance with a single cone of cold, or similar attack. I don't know if any of his other abilities really give him enough damage output to justify that sort of vulnerability, especially if he's losing immunity. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

I like the quality where there is fire everywhere with this guy. I kind of like the nova more than the burning blood ability, although the fact that the blood is a reaction that doesn't take an action probably makes it better. --[[User:146.127.253.12|146.127.253.12]]

==Numbers==
Whipped up an app to generate numbers. Here are damage numbers for all the cold spells in the SRD.

CLvl is caster level, min max and average are for that level, boost are the same but with vulnerability, avgbr## is avgboost with resist of that amount applied before vulnerability.

It's probably worth pointing out that the min level is based on Wizard caster level. Sorcs will be higher. I also didn't check whether any of them were domain spells that might occur at an earlier level. This also, I just remembered, doesn't include Divine spells--I can add them pretty easily, once I get back to the computer that has the script. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:Never mind, there are no cold-damage Divine spells. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::One cold-damage Druid spell (kept here to remember later): [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chillMetal.htm Chill Metal]

<tt>
Ray of Frost, min caster level 1, Cold Type, Ranged touch attack
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
1| 1| 3| 2.0| 1.5| 4.5| 3.0| 0.0| 0.0| 0.0

Cold Shield, min caster level 7, Cold Type, No save
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
7| 8| 13| 10.0| 12.0| 19.5| 15.0| 0.0| 0.0| 0.0
8| 9| 14| 11.0| 13.5| 21.0| 16.5| 1.5| 0.0| 0.0
9| 10| 15| 12.0| 15.0| 22.5| 18.0| 3.0| 0.0| 0.0
10| 11| 16| 13.0| 16.5| 24.0| 19.5| 4.5| 0.0| 0.0
11| 12| 17| 14.0| 18.0| 25.5| 21.0| 6.0| 0.0| 0.0
12| 13| 18| 15.0| 19.5| 27.0| 22.5| 7.5| 0.0| 0.0
13| 14| 19| 16.0| 21.0| 28.5| 24.0| 9.0| 0.0| 0.0
14| 15| 20| 17.0| 22.5| 30.0| 25.5| 10.5| 0.0| 0.0
15| 16| 21| 18.0| 24.0| 31.5| 27.0| 12.0| 0.0| 0.0

Ice Storm, min caster level 7, Cold Type, No save
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
7| 2| 12| 6.0| 3.0| 18.0| 9.0| 0.0| 0.0| 0.0

Wall of Ice, min caster level 7, Cold Type, No save
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
7| 8| 13| 10.0| 12.0| 19.5| 15.0| 0.0| 0.0| 0.0
8| 9| 14| 11.0| 13.5| 21.0| 16.5| 1.5| 0.0| 0.0
9| 10| 15| 12.0| 15.0| 22.5| 18.0| 3.0| 0.0| 0.0
10| 11| 16| 13.0| 16.5| 24.0| 19.5| 4.5| 0.0| 0.0
11| 12| 17| 14.0| 18.0| 25.5| 21.0| 6.0| 0.0| 0.0
12| 13| 18| 15.0| 19.5| 27.0| 22.5| 7.5| 0.0| 0.0
13| 14| 19| 16.0| 21.0| 28.5| 24.0| 9.0| 0.0| 0.0
14| 15| 20| 17.0| 22.5| 30.0| 25.5| 10.5| 0.0| 0.0
15| 16| 21| 18.0| 24.0| 31.5| 27.0| 12.0| 0.0| 0.0
16| 17| 22| 19.0| 25.5| 33.0| 28.5| 13.5| 0.0| 0.0
17| 18| 23| 20.0| 27.0| 34.5| 30.0| 15.0| 0.0| 0.0
18| 19| 24| 21.0| 28.5| 36.0| 31.5| 16.5| 1.5| 0.0
19| 20| 25| 22.0| 30.0| 37.5| 33.0| 18.0| 3.0| 0.0
20| 21| 26| 23.0| 31.5| 39.0| 34.5| 19.5| 4.5| 0.0

Cone of Cold, min caster level 9, Cold Type, Save for half
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
9| 9| 54| 31.0| 13.5| 81.0| 46.5| 31.5| 16.5| 1.5
10| 10| 60| 35.0| 15.0| 90.0| 52.5| 37.5| 22.5| 7.5
11| 11| 66| 38.0| 16.5| 99.0| 57.0| 42.0| 27.0| 12.0
12| 12| 72| 42.0| 18.0| 108.0| 63.0| 48.0| 33.0| 18.0
13| 13| 78| 45.0| 19.5| 117.0| 67.5| 52.5| 37.5| 22.5
14| 14| 84| 49.0| 21.0| 126.0| 73.5| 58.5| 43.5| 28.5
15| 15| 90| 52.0| 22.5| 135.0| 78.0| 63.0| 48.0| 33.0

Freezing Sphere, min caster level 11, Cold Type, Save for half
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
11| 11| 66| 38.0| 16.5| 99.0| 57.0| 42.0| 27.0| 12.0
12| 12| 72| 42.0| 18.0| 108.0| 63.0| 48.0| 33.0| 18.0
13| 13| 78| 45.0| 19.5| 117.0| 67.5| 52.5| 37.5| 22.5
14| 14| 84| 49.0| 21.0| 126.0| 73.5| 58.5| 43.5| 28.5
15| 15| 90| 52.0| 22.5| 135.0| 78.0| 63.0| 48.0| 33.0

Polar Ray, min caster level 15, Cold Type, Ranged touch attack
CLvl| min| max| avg|minboost|maxboost|avgboost|avgbr10|avgbr20|avgbr30
15| 15| 90| 52.0| 22.5| 135.0| 78.0| 63.0| 48.0| 33.0
16| 16| 96| 56.0| 24.0| 144.0| 84.0| 69.0| 54.0| 39.0
17| 17| 102| 59.0| 25.5| 153.0| 88.5| 73.5| 58.5| 43.5
18| 18| 108| 63.0| 27.0| 162.0| 94.5| 79.5| 64.5| 49.5
19| 19| 114| 66.0| 28.5| 171.0| 99.0| 84.0| 69.0| 54.0
20| 20| 120| 70.0| 30.0| 180.0| 105.0| 90.0| 75.0| 60.0
21| 21| 126| 73.0| 31.5| 189.0| 109.5| 94.5| 79.5| 64.5
22| 22| 132| 77.0| 33.0| 198.0| 115.5| 100.5| 85.5| 70.5
23| 23| 138| 80.0| 34.5| 207.0| 120.0| 105.0| 90.0| 75.0
24| 24| 144| 84.0| 36.0| 216.0| 126.0| 111.0| 96.0| 81.0
25| 25| 150| 87.0| 37.5| 225.0| 130.5| 115.5| 100.5| 85.5

</tt>

Am I reading this table right? I get the impression that vulnerability will increase the damage of cold based spells by between 80% and 150% on average depending on the spell. Double damage from spells does seem pretty rough. --[[User:146.127.253.44|146.127.253.44]]
:Vulnerability adds 50% to damage after resists and so on. The more interesting statistics are the numbers themselves, and whether or not they are enough to, say, kill the vulnerable PC in a single hit with little/no chance of a save after the vulnerability boost. The big ones to worry about are Cone of Cold and Freezing Sphere (Polar Ray is also scary, but it's scary regardless of vulnerability status, and a ranged touch attack does no damage when avoided, compared to half damage on a reflex save, and in addition to DC being easier to add to than reflex). For both CoC and FS, at the min caster level, the boosted damage means there's a good chance of instant Flame Disciple death even on a successful Reflex save for half damage, unless the FD can keep Cold Resist 30 up (and even then, the ''average'' takes him down to ~66% of hp). Jonesy has already opted to ditch vulnerability, so it's an academic point. Once I'm home, I plan to do similar analysis for the damage buffs. I'm less positive what we can compare those to, but it won't hurt to have more data around. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
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! Stuff hidden 10:15, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
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I've not been playing for a particularly long time, so I have no idea how well (or poorly) balanced this is. Specifically, I'm not sure if the minor elemental storm is actually useful or if it's just cool sounding. I've also thought about spell-like abilities like the following that could be used in place of the ones listed or possibly in the 2nd and 4th level slots:

Wildfire: all creatures (enemies?) currently on fire explode, dealing some nominal damage to themselves and catching enemies within 10' on fire (chance to save by reflex).

Living bomb: small damage per round, larger AoE on death/expiration of the DoT/dispel.

Combustion(?): Causes a small explosion under the caster's feet, dealing some small amount of damage and knocking everyone within 5' backwards 10' (used to disengage from melee enemies), possibly a chance to knock the opponent prone?

Engulfing flames: Some sort of stacking effect where each fire damage by the caster causes the target to be more susceptible to fire for N rounds.

...

If more balance is needed, I think it would be appropriate for non-fire based offensive spells to count as one level higher than they are listed for purposes of spells known / per day.

Another option I've considered would be to flesh out all of the spells so far and provide them as a supplemental spell list that the caster could take as necessary.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Be gentle.

[[User:TooMuchPete|TooMuchPete]] 17:27, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

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! Stuff hidden 10:32, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
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|I'm sure Matt or Slitherrr will chime in on the numbers and rulesy stuff, they're good with that. I like the idea, overall, and think we can do some more interesting stuff with it. First off, as far as becoming half elemental, we can do that. To whit: <a href="http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf">Templates</a>. I'm not sure about the half-elemental in there, but other ones abound, might even have one in a dragon somewhere. Essentally you'd become an Fire Outsider instead of a Humanoid and some other fire related bonuses. I'll put some thought in and see what other kind of suggestions pop up. I think, probably, some of these might be underpowered or impractical (2 minute activation time! That's 20 rounds. The ENTIRE of last sundays game was like 15), and a couple need to be scaled back or gradated or even degradated. I like the idea of taking extra damage from cold, but I don't know that it needs to scale that much. 50% extra at third and double at 5th or something, since working in halves is kind of a mechanical normalcy.

Also: If it's going to have one good save, it's will. It's a good start, should be fun to work on -gm
:Ditto on will save, but the elemental swarm ability is pulled almost verbatim from the [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/elementalswarm.htm SRD], so I think its point is to be cast outside of battle. I also agree with the 1/3/5 resist/vulnerability step, for the same reasons, although numbers will take tweaking. Something like 10/20/immune-x1/x1.5/x2 would probably work, although vulnerability in the SRD is only a +50%, so inspecting those numbers might be worthwhile. Perhaps +1d4/+1d8/vulnerability (+50%)? We'll have to look into some cold-damage spells and see what numbers they do to figure those out. Talking in IRC, Pete and I both think that 1d4 is probably too much self-damage per round for self-immolate. Obviously the damage can't be resistible, or it might as well not be there, but having a cost is important, too. It might be best to just make the ability a pure toggle--that would make the self-damage less scary, but allow it to still be the fairly large (for a sorc's hp) 1d4/round amount. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
: Excellent thought. Let me bring a DM's eye to this - the less die the better. I would suggest something more along the lines of sacrificing X HP in order to generate some factor of Xd4 in damage, with a cap influenced by level. It makes the math very easy, and scales with level, which I think is an important aspect of prestige classes. I almost always include at least one scaling ability per package.
:: I think for GENERAL energy resistance, 1/3/5 is the way to go, but for a discrete damage type - especially coupled with a vulnerability - I think 5/10/15 or even 5/10/20 is appropriate. 20 isn't IMMUNE, but you could still probably play at least one game of ping pong while standing in a wall of fire.
::: This is hard to balance. Those are pretty small numbers when you start talking about the sorts of damage fire can do, ESPECIALLY if coupled with vulnerability. I say that, if the resistance numbers are this "small" (and it's pretty small, since fire spells really start racking up the damage at higher levels, and it's not like this resist can stack with Resist Energy casts), we should consider also really reducing the cold vulnerability, or removing it altogether. After all, elementals aren't vulnerable to opposite-aligned elemental spells, the vulnerability was just to balance the fairly powerful (on a PC) immunity, and possibly other abilities.
:::: Yeah, balance tweaking is in order here, but I don't think something like 5xDisciple Level in Flame DR is bad. 25 is quite a lot of resistance. The spells it won't soak up most of are things like delayed blast, which you don't need to be shrugging off, regardless. For any of the spells involved in the self-center mechanic, it should be more than enough - especially if that DR is doubled for that specific purpose.
:::: Oh, and elementals most certainly DO have vulnerabilities to opposite alignment. It's right there under "Special Qualities." Of course, it's not scaling, it's just Some creatures have vulnerability to a certain kind of energy effect (typically either cold or fire). Such a creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from the effect, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed, or if the save is a success or failure. . I do like this idea, but perhaps as part of the level 5 "turning into a half elemental" package. -gm
::::: Holy fuck, how did I miss the vulnerability every single time I looked at that page, and the qualities section on same? Damn, man. But yeah, the vulnerability comes along with immunity, so 25 DR with 2.0x puts him at a severe disadvantage by comparison. I dunno, needz tweakz, but that's probably a secondary concern right now anyway.-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

::It feels somewhat weird to go from 1d8 to +50%, as it's not difficult to imagine a situation in which +8 would be more than 50% of the incoming damage. +25% might be awkward to do at level 3, and x2.0 might be a little high, but I think the x2 could be balanced a bit by adding another ability or somehow improving the survivability a bit in some other way. --[[User:TooMuchPete|TooMuchPete]] 11:15, 22 June 2010 (EDT)
: I'd prefer not to add extra dice in the singular, so for something like cold vulnerability, the more likely way to go is a penalty to save coupled with some straight % of damage increase.

:Also, the extent of transformation into an Elemental type would matter, since there are attributes that apply.

From the SRD:
# Darkvision out to 60 feet.
# Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
# Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
# Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.
# Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
# Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
# Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

5 and 6 obviously don't apply, and 3 and 4 probably don't, since crits/flanking is based on not having a discernible front or anatomy, and the usual trope for 4 is for members of transformation PrCs to still count as their base type for purposes of resurrection (not that it matters in THIS particular campaign), but the rest are fair game. The dragon disciple even gains stats, but I think that the spells and extraordinary abilities offset that particular bit for this guy. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

:: Yeah. I think a full on elemental type would me a little much. There are two or three different half-elemental templates floating around out there, to say nothing of a character race set (the Gensai, et al) based around half elementalism. The 5th level of the prestige class could be the acquisition of the template, which I think is preferable to a wholesale race substitution. But, either way, I think Outsider (Fire) getting added is a given considering the description.
::: Right. PrCs of this sort generally add a creature type, rather than substituting one completely (so Humanoid/Fire Elemental, or Humanoid/Outsider(Fire), which is a difference in degree), generally meaning that effects that target one or the other will affect the character (with some exceptions made, like being able to be resurrected and whatnot). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

Most of the additional ideas above seem impractical or not terribly useful, but I'd like to find a way to work Wildfire in. The two big problems I see with it now are: a) It would need to use a spell slot. Maybe level 1 or 2? Otherwise I could imagine it being a bit over-powered. b) there aren't a ton of spells that actually set the enemy on fire, so there's not a ton of usefulness to it. The only solution I could see to that is that fire damage dealt could have a chance to set the target on fire (maybe coupled with self-immolate?). That might be more useful than the Minor Elemental Swarm, which I added just because sounds cool. --[[User:TooMuchPete|TooMuchPete]] 11:15, 22 June 2010 (EDT)
:Well, if it uses a spell slot, you might be better off just adding a fire-only spell slot to the class at the levels where he gains caster level, and then fleshing Wildfire out into a spell. Extraordinary/supernatural abilities tend to be limited by the x/day thing, or by repercussions (i.e. self-damage), or not limited at all.-[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:: s/Wildfire/Self-immolate. Damn your WoW-centric vocabulary! -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: Alright, I like the idea of where you're going with this, but I think that the stuff gained by the class needs to not be a spell like ability, but rather things that augment your spells. Consider, perhaps, the ability to cast any fire spell as a 10' radius (it could grow with character levels) spell centered on yourself. Either a set number of times per day, perhaps based on an attribute, or as a metamagic feat with sometihng like +1 spell level. You'd damage yourself, getting the immolation idea in, but the elemental resistance would eat up a lot of that. If the math works out to be too punishing, we could have the innate DR double when using the ability (so 5/10/20 or 30 becomes 10/20/40 or 60). So, for example, you could cast Burning Hands as a radius effect spell on yourself and you'd take whatever damage your fire resistance did not eat up, or a Searing Ray, or a Fireball or whatever.
::: Better, even, if the DR scales something like 5 per level, maxing out at 25 at level five? Likewise, perhaps, the character level would restrict the spell level for the ability: first level could only cast first level spells that way, through 5th level. Anything higher than that, really, even with 40 or 60 DR you might kill yourself.

::: As for Elemental Swarm - I think, especially considering you're going for the Pseudodragon, you would be better of developing it as a spell that you can pick up at the appropriate level. Something like what you are looking for, in spell form, probably exists in the wild

Thoughts? -gm
: For the record, I see that there are two options as far as the immolation thing goes - the metamagic feat or extraordinary ability that turns spells into radius effects or a scaling X nonpreventable damage for Yd4 effect. I prefer the former, because it has built in scaling (by picking the spell) and mimics in mechanics what I think you are going for (centering firestorms on yourself.)
: As for the firestorm idea, another option would be to include a metamagic feat that allows you to learn any elemntal tag spell as a fire version of that spell. So, cone of cold becomes cone of fire, etc. This way, there are actually a couple of options for firestorms at various levels, allowing you to get one or both. Ice Storm, which also impairs movement, and Acid Raid (or some such) which just does a megafuck damage. I think this is preferable, again, because it keeps the primary engine of your damage as the spell slot.
::I think we might be combing two different ideas here that I had not intended to be related. The tl;dr on self-immolation (as I've proposed it) is a damage buff to fire-spells that costs HP. The small, caster-centered AOE is more of a result of the way the ability was conceived... which is basically that the caster becomes engulfed in raging flames, doing damage to himself and surroundings, but making his fire spells more powerful. Wildfire is more of a way to make fire contagious. When the ability is used, enemies who are on fire have a chance to set nearby enemies on fire, too. [[User:TooMuchPete|TooMuchPete]] 11:07, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
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I updated the article to reflect something of a consensus on the way to do fire resist (FR 5x Disciple Level), although I'm still not sure the best way to handle cold damage. In Elementals, Immunity to fire yields +50% cold damage, so anything that big seems like it would be bad news. One suggestion from [[slitherrr] was +1 to each cold damage die rolled, which is significant at high levels without being absurd. That would make sense to take effect on the 5th level. If something was needed in the interim, +1 per 2 dice could be done at level 3 or something.

I moved caster level advancement from levels 1,3,5 to levels 2,4 to provide a bit of room to do more fun stuff.

I also removed Minor Elemental Swarm -- the idea is neat, but it seems impractical and like it would be rarely used for it to be a 5th level ability.

Some ideas so far for filling in other abilities (etc):
* Metamagic feats don't cost anything for fire-based spells
* Possibly the option between two different styles of new metamagic feat:
** Fire spells all get a knockback/knockdown, or
** Fire spells apply a damage over time effect
* A caster-centered explosion (presumably to deal with being swarmed)
* The ability to learn druid/cleric/etc fire spells at some sort of level penalty

I'm open to suggestions for others, it seems (at least to me) like there's a bit of room to push more cool stuff in without making the class over-powered.

-[[User:TooMuchPete|TooMuchPete]] 17:07, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

Single-Level Prestige Classes

2010-11-04T14:39:39Z

96.5.63.21:

Is there much precedent for having prestige classes with ridiculous requirements and only a single level that exist solely to confer some amazing ability? It seems like a natural outgrowth of the modularity of Feats while allowing more flexibility in the abilities granted and the prerequisites required (although I suppose there is nothing but precedence that keeps feats from having all the same prereqs as prestige classes). -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 10:51, 2 November 2010 (EDT)
: I don't think so. Generally it's either a 5 or 10 level progression. There are probably some template/feat tricks in various dragons that get close to what you're describing. -gm
:: I have seen some 3-level prestige classes, but you're right. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
::: 3 level? Must be some forgotten realms mess! As you can probably tell, I think the 5 level prestige class is the best idea ever. I remember several dragons that allowed things like acquiring templates through feat acquisition, etc., etc. which might be close to what your going for. Idle curiosity, or got something in mind? You don't think Kib has enough classes attached to him in the long term already? :) -gm

File talk:Tenpence.jpg

2010-10-21T13:22:18Z

96.5.63.21: Created page with "Well, good, now your horse can get his own icon in game. -gm"

Well, good, now your horse can get his own icon in game. -gm

Upgrade

2010-10-21T13:13:47Z

96.5.63.21:

So, from what I read, upgrading is a pretty simple process. I'm assuming that the only customization that has been performed on the code behind this wiki is to a) modify the LocalSettings.php file (which you probably did from the front-end anyway on install), and b) the CAPTCHA extension. If that's the case, I should be able to take an evening to bring the wiki up to .16 with basically no effort. If I recall correctly, 1&1 even has a backup utility that we can use to make sure everything is safe. Let me know if you'd like me to go for it, and I'll get on it, probably on Thursday. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 11:28, 18 October 2010 (EDT)
: My favorite part? Where I don't have to do anything, because I just break shit. That would be phenomenal. -gm
:test!

::Ok, it's done. Evidently you were a bad boy and set the logo by overwriting the old file rather than putting the new image in the LocalSettings file, but that's ok. I don't have time to fix it immediately, but I'll get to it. -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
:::Doneski, and now it won't be overwritten next time there's an upgrade. ENJOY YOUR FINE, PRETTY COLORS. -[[Special:Contributions/66.207.91.56|66.207.91.56]]
:::: Hahaha, thanks! What'd I tell you? I break shit! -gm