Talk:Arcane Disciple - Revision history

96.5.63.22: /* Spell overlap? */

2011-04-05T16:18:13Z

Spell overlap?

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	== Spell overlap? ==		== Spell overlap? ==
	Randomly curious: If you pick the ''Identify'' spell for an arcane spell, it's Level 1. So does that mean an AD could memorize ''Identify'' as a Level 1 spell or a Level 2 spell (per Magic domain) if they so desired? (If it matters whether it is a ''Magic'' spell or not, consider ''Locate Object'' which is already on Clr spell list a level higher than Sor/Wiz.) Or is there some implied requirement that if it already exists in their spell list, they can't pick the same arcane spell? For some reason the class flavor description makes me think they wouldn't mimic arcane spells they already had divine-ish versions of. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		Randomly curious: If you pick the ''Identify'' spell for an arcane spell, it's Level 1. So does that mean an AD could memorize ''Identify'' as a Level 1 spell or a Level 2 spell (per Magic domain) if they so desired? (If it matters whether it is a ''Magic'' spell or not, consider ''Locate Object'' which is already on Clr spell list a level higher than Sor/Wiz.) Or is there some implied requirement that if it already exists in their spell list, they can't pick the same arcane spell? For some reason the class flavor description makes me think they wouldn't mimic arcane spells they already had divine-ish versions of. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			: Yes. They would have IDentify (1st) and Identify (2nd) on their spell list in that case. -gm

Mattie: tweaked cons and asking about spells that were already on both arcane and existing spell lists

2011-04-05T15:04:47Z

tweaked cons and asking about spells that were already on both arcane and existing spell lists

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:04, 5 April 2011
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			== Balance discussion ==
	This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm		: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm
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	:::** The following spells are added to the AD spell list: Magic Aura(1), Identify(2), Antimagic Field(6 normally Clr8), Spell Turning(7), Protection from Spells(8), Mage’s Disjunction(9)		:::** The following spells are added to the AD spell list: Magic Aura(1), Identify(2), Antimagic Field(6 normally Clr8), Spell Turning(7), Protection from Spells(8), Mage’s Disjunction(9)
	:::*Cons:		:::*Cons:
			:::** No domain spells per day (in other words, -1 spell slot per level versus a normal cleric with domains)
	:::** No domain abilities		:::** No domain abilities
	:::** No turn/rebuke		:::** No turn/rebuke
	:::** Lowered hitdice from d8 to d6		:::** Lowered hitdice from d8 to d6
	:::** ?? Spell per day reduction? I'm not sure if you can still use Magic domain spells (or arcane spells) in a cleric's normal domain spell memorization slot. If not, that's a pretty big ding to have fewer spells you can memorize a day.
	:::Anything else? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:::Anything else? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

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	: I'm still confused, on one point, though. On the Spells per Day for Cleric there is a "+1" for each spell level for domain spell memorization. What does an AD do with that +1 slot? Do they lose it? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		: I'm still confused, on one point, though. On the Spells per Day for Cleric there is a "+1" for each spell level for domain spell memorization. What does an AD do with that +1 slot? Do they lose it? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: Yeah, they just don't get it. that +1 slot is for your domain spell at each level. No domains, no domain spell slot. -gm		:: Yeah, they just don't get it. that +1 slot is for your domain spell at each level. No domains, no domain spell slot. -gm

			== Spell overlap? ==
			Randomly curious: If you pick the ''Identify'' spell for an arcane spell, it's Level 1. So does that mean an AD could memorize ''Identify'' as a Level 1 spell or a Level 2 spell (per Magic domain) if they so desired? (If it matters whether it is a ''Magic'' spell or not, consider ''Locate Object'' which is already on Clr spell list a level higher than Sor/Wiz.) Or is there some implied requirement that if it already exists in their spell list, they can't pick the same arcane spell? For some reason the class flavor description makes me think they wouldn't mimic arcane spells they already had divine-ish versions of. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

96.5.63.22 at 14:41, 5 April 2011

2011-04-05T14:41:09Z

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	: I added a note about the extra 6 spells above (3 already exist, Dispel Magic, Imbue, and Spell Resistance).		: I added a note about the extra 6 spells above (3 already exist, Dispel Magic, Imbue, and Spell Resistance).
	: I'm still confused, on one point, though. On the Spells per Day for Cleric there is a "+1" for each spell level for domain spell memorization. What does an AD do with that +1 slot? Do they lose it? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		: I'm still confused, on one point, though. On the Spells per Day for Cleric there is a "+1" for each spell level for domain spell memorization. What does an AD do with that +1 slot? Do they lose it? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			:: Yeah, they just don't get it. that +1 slot is for your domain spell at each level. No domains, no domain spell slot. -gm

Mattie: do they lose bonus spell mem slot per level?

2011-04-05T13:44:45Z

do they lose bonus spell mem slot per level?

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	:::*Pros:		:::*Pros:
	:::** You get bonus metamagic/item feats (5 of them total)		:::** You get bonus metamagic/item feats (5 of them total)
	:::** Much better spell choice: You get access to 9 spells from Magic domain + 20 arcane top-picks (instead of 18 pre-chosen spells from 2 domains).		:::** Much better spell choice: You get access to 6 spells from Magic domain + 20 arcane top-picks (instead of 18 pre-chosen spells from 2 domains).
	:::*** Minor diff for L9 spells: No 9th level arcane spells means you have one less 9th level spell choice than a cleric with two carefully-chosen domains (traded for a few extra 8th-level arcane picks). Magic domain does give you Mage's Disjunction, though.		:::*** Minor diff for L9 spells: No 9th level arcane spells means you have one less 9th level spell choice than a cleric with two carefully-chosen domains (traded for a few extra 8th-level arcane picks). Magic domain does give you Mage's Disjunction, though.
	:::** 4+INT for skill points each level (versus 2+INT)		:::** 4+INT for skill points each level (versus 2+INT)
	:::** UMD as class skill		:::** UMD as class skill
			:::** The following spells are added to the AD spell list: Magic Aura(1), Identify(2), Antimagic Field(6 normally Clr8), Spell Turning(7), Protection from Spells(8), Mage’s Disjunction(9)
	:::*Cons:		:::*Cons:
	:::** No domain abilities		:::** No domain abilities
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	A Evangelist, OTOH, gains the domains chosen AND gets those domain spells added to her "known spells" list. -gm		A Evangelist, OTOH, gains the domains chosen AND gets those domain spells added to her "known spells" list. -gm
			: I added a note about the extra 6 spells above (3 already exist, Dispel Magic, Imbue, and Spell Resistance).
			: I'm still confused, on one point, though. On the Spells per Day for Cleric there is a "+1" for each spell level for domain spell memorization. What does an AD do with that +1 slot? Do they lose it? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

96.4.63.21 at 12:18, 5 April 2011

2011-04-05T12:18:35Z

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	:::** ?? Spell per day reduction? I'm not sure if you can still use Magic domain spells (or arcane spells) in a cleric's normal domain spell memorization slot. If not, that's a pretty big ding to have fewer spells you can memorize a day.		:::** ?? Spell per day reduction? I'm not sure if you can still use Magic domain spells (or arcane spells) in a cleric's normal domain spell memorization slot. If not, that's a pretty big ding to have fewer spells you can memorize a day.
	:::Anything else? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:::Anything else? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

			A vanilla cleric can memorize EXACTLY ONE domain spell in each domain slot per level, and those spells are NOT added to the cleric's regular spell list. In the case of the AD class, however, it does not gain the magic domain, but does get all of those domain spells added to her cleric spell list. So, a Magic Domain cleric can memorize exactly one Identify as her second level domain spell, but a AD can prepare as many Identifies as she has second level spells.

			A Evangelist, OTOH, gains the domains chosen AND gets those domain spells added to her "known spells" list. -gm

Mattie: skill info pros

2011-04-05T03:19:26Z

skill info pros

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:19, 5 April 2011
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	:::** Much better spell choice: You get access to 9 spells from Magic domain + 20 arcane top-picks (instead of 18 pre-chosen spells from 2 domains).		:::** Much better spell choice: You get access to 9 spells from Magic domain + 20 arcane top-picks (instead of 18 pre-chosen spells from 2 domains).
	:::*** Minor diff for L9 spells: No 9th level arcane spells means you have one less 9th level spell choice than a cleric with two carefully-chosen domains (traded for a few extra 8th-level arcane picks). Magic domain does give you Mage's Disjunction, though.		:::*** Minor diff for L9 spells: No 9th level arcane spells means you have one less 9th level spell choice than a cleric with two carefully-chosen domains (traded for a few extra 8th-level arcane picks). Magic domain does give you Mage's Disjunction, though.
			:::** 4+INT for skill points each level (versus 2+INT)
			:::** UMD as class skill
	:::*Cons:		:::*Cons:
	:::** No domain abilities		:::** No domain abilities

Mattie: pros/cons

2011-04-05T03:16:20Z

pros/cons

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:16, 5 April 2011
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	: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm		: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm
	:: So, trades the domain spell for a lower-level Arcane spell, and turn/rebuke for bonus feats? I'm not very familiar with clerics. -[[User:Slitherrr\|Slitherrr]]		:: So, trades the domain spell for a lower-level Arcane spell, and turn/rebuke for bonus feats? I'm not very familiar with clerics. -[[User:Slitherrr\|Slitherrr]]
			::: There are some subtle comparisons to be made here.
			:::*Pros:
			:::** You get bonus metamagic/item feats (5 of them total)
			:::** Much better spell choice: You get access to 9 spells from Magic domain + 20 arcane top-picks (instead of 18 pre-chosen spells from 2 domains).
			:::*** Minor diff for L9 spells: No 9th level arcane spells means you have one less 9th level spell choice than a cleric with two carefully-chosen domains (traded for a few extra 8th-level arcane picks). Magic domain does give you Mage's Disjunction, though.
			:::*Cons:
			:::** No domain abilities
			:::** No turn/rebuke
			:::** Lowered hitdice from d8 to d6
			:::** ?? Spell per day reduction? I'm not sure if you can still use Magic domain spells (or arcane spells) in a cleric's normal domain spell memorization slot. If not, that's a pretty big ding to have fewer spells you can memorize a day.
			:::Anything else? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Slitherrr at 02:47, 5 April 2011

2011-04-05T02:47:40Z

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	This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm		: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm
			:: So, trades the domain spell for a lower-level Arcane spell, and turn/rebuke for bonus feats? I'm not very familiar with clerics. -[[User:Slitherrr\|Slitherrr]]

Detarame at 00:17, 5 April 2011

2011-04-05T00:17:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:17, 5 April 2011
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	This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm		: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it at first sight. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm

Detarame at 00:17, 5 April 2011

2011-04-05T00:17:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:17, 5 April 2011
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	This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		This is pretty cool. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			: As you can imagine, I fell in love with it. I look forward to a AD/Sorc/DD monster spellcaster build. -gm