Talk:Climb Walls - Revision history

Detarame at 21:49, 31 May 2012

2012-05-31T21:49:34Z

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	::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
	:::: I think the Prince of Persia would disagree with your synopsis of jump being less useful than climb. I think that is more a factor of the style of game we play than anything. Also, for the most part, the climb speed using the climb walls spells is ~7, and climbing something like a normal dungeon wall is a DC of 20, which is still not guaranteed with +10, and the DC is 25 to climb with speed ~15. I'd say spider climb is definitely a level more powerful given its 20 climb speed, ability to climb on ceilings and perfectly smooth walls, and a +8 to climb checks. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		:::: I think the Prince of Persia would disagree with your synopsis of jump being less useful than climb. I think that is more a factor of the style of game we play than anything. Also, for the most part, the climb speed using the climb walls spells is ~7, and climbing something like a normal dungeon wall is a DC of 20, which is still not guaranteed with +10, and the DC is 25 to climb with speed ~15. I'd say spider climb is definitely a level more powerful given its 20 climb speed, ability to climb on ceilings and perfectly smooth walls, and a +8 to climb checks. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			::::: There you go! Always fall back on the math, I guess. I'd still - for my sanity, anyway - make it a "rare" spell in my own games, (for divines, add one non-vanilla spell to spell list per level) which is mostly to keep druids' and clerics' spell lists under control. Also, Prince of Persia is a platform adventure game. All three abilities see a reasonable amount of use, I just think climb does in most every game. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 17:49, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

Msallen at 21:20, 31 May 2012

2012-05-31T21:20:23Z

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	::: http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/3883a91b-d21c-4311-9e67-ace90fe13082/2012-05-31_1226.png		::: http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/3883a91b-d21c-4311-9e67-ace90fe13082/2012-05-31_1226.png
	::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
			:::: I think the Prince of Persia would disagree with your synopsis of jump being less useful than climb. I think that is more a factor of the style of game we play than anything. Also, for the most part, the climb speed using the climb walls spells is ~7, and climbing something like a normal dungeon wall is a DC of 20, which is still not guaranteed with +10, and the DC is 25 to climb with speed ~15. I'd say spider climb is definitely a level more powerful given its 20 climb speed, ability to climb on ceilings and perfectly smooth walls, and a +8 to climb checks. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

Detarame at 19:44, 31 May 2012

2012-05-31T19:44:12Z

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	:: Still don't understand why they didn't give it to wizards. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 12:17, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		:: Still don't understand why they didn't give it to wizards. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 12:17, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
	::: Yeah, that seems like confusion on their part that it really should be Wiz, too. Also regarding Swim/Jump/Climb/etc, I find it interesting that the Rings of Swim/Jump/Climb all have the same costs and bonus, etc. Seems like it would be reasonable for their to be parallel spells for each of those as you suggested. Yet in SpC I don't see a Swim counterpart, though I do see something that is somewhat more like "Spider Climb" for Swim:		::: Yeah, that seems like confusion on their part that it really should be Wiz, too. Also regarding Swim/Jump/Climb/etc, I find it interesting that the Rings of Swim/Jump/Climb all have the same costs and bonus, etc. Seems like it would be reasonable for their to be parallel spells for each of those as you suggested. Yet in SpC I don't see a Swim counterpart, though I do see something that is somewhat more like "Spider Climb" for Swim:
			:::: Yeah, I noticed that. I went looking at the same things. :D I also noticed that - if memory serves - Climb rings require the Spider Climb from their creators, and Jump requires the Jump spell, but Swim only require a certain number of ranks. I'd much rather see one of these swimy spells be a prereq for the swim ring. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 15:44, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
	::: http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/3883a91b-d21c-4311-9e67-ace90fe13082/2012-05-31_1226.png		::: http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/3883a91b-d21c-4311-9e67-ace90fe13082/2012-05-31_1226.png
	::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

Mattie: mentioning the Swim spell

2012-05-31T17:36:35Z

mentioning the Swim spell

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	: I'm fine with considering nerfing/adjusting it however you might like. I didn't get a chance to clarify, but this is copied from Spell Compendium. It was in my Hero Lab and it's not critical to plot, but it made sense as a good Druid helper like Jump. It's more just an offering/hint to the Arabelle party to help us move past hours of pit trap madness that might otherwise endure if you guys don't figure out good tricks. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 12:11, 31 May 2012 (EDT)<blockquote>http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/bb3e96a6-0f5a-486b-a751-0012bd6c46bf/2012-05-31_1105.png</blockquote>		: I'm fine with considering nerfing/adjusting it however you might like. I didn't get a chance to clarify, but this is copied from Spell Compendium. It was in my Hero Lab and it's not critical to plot, but it made sense as a good Druid helper like Jump. It's more just an offering/hint to the Arabelle party to help us move past hours of pit trap madness that might otherwise endure if you guys don't figure out good tricks. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 12:11, 31 May 2012 (EDT)<blockquote>http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/bb3e96a6-0f5a-486b-a751-0012bd6c46bf/2012-05-31_1105.png</blockquote>
	:: Still don't understand why they didn't give it to wizards. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 12:17, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		:: Still don't understand why they didn't give it to wizards. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 12:17, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
			::: Yeah, that seems like confusion on their part that it really should be Wiz, too. Also regarding Swim/Jump/Climb/etc, I find it interesting that the Rings of Swim/Jump/Climb all have the same costs and bonus, etc. Seems like it would be reasonable for their to be parallel spells for each of those as you suggested. Yet in SpC I don't see a Swim counterpart, though I do see something that is somewhat more like "Spider Climb" for Swim:
			::: http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/3883a91b-d21c-4311-9e67-ace90fe13082/2012-05-31_1226.png
			::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

Detarame at 16:17, 31 May 2012

2012-05-31T16:17:35Z

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	: I'm fine with considering nerfing/adjusting it however you might like. I didn't get a chance to clarify, but this is copied from Spell Compendium. It was in my Hero Lab and it's not critical to plot, but it made sense as a good Druid helper like Jump. It's more just an offering/hint to the Arabelle party to help us move past hours of pit trap madness that might otherwise endure if you guys don't figure out good tricks. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 12:11, 31 May 2012 (EDT)<blockquote>http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/bb3e96a6-0f5a-486b-a751-0012bd6c46bf/2012-05-31_1105.png</blockquote>		: I'm fine with considering nerfing/adjusting it however you might like. I didn't get a chance to clarify, but this is copied from Spell Compendium. It was in my Hero Lab and it's not critical to plot, but it made sense as a good Druid helper like Jump. It's more just an offering/hint to the Arabelle party to help us move past hours of pit trap madness that might otherwise endure if you guys don't figure out good tricks. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 12:11, 31 May 2012 (EDT)<blockquote>http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/bb3e96a6-0f5a-486b-a751-0012bd6c46bf/2012-05-31_1105.png</blockquote>
			:: Still don't understand why they didn't give it to wizards. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 12:17, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

Mattie: mentioned spll compendium source

2012-05-31T16:11:31Z

mentioned spll compendium source

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	*I also think this leaves the way open for a Swim spell, and I think +10/+20/+30 is the natural progression there. (Since the swim skill gives you a de-facto swim movement speed). I also think there could be a cute cantrip version of this that maybe gives a +2 on your next Swim, Jump, or Climb check. Cantrips are so awesome. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		*I also think this leaves the way open for a Swim spell, and I think +10/+20/+30 is the natural progression there. (Since the swim skill gives you a de-facto swim movement speed). I also think there could be a cute cantrip version of this that maybe gives a +2 on your next Swim, Jump, or Climb check. Cantrips are so awesome. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

			: I'm fine with considering nerfing/adjusting it however you might like. I didn't get a chance to clarify, but this is copied from Spell Compendium. It was in my Hero Lab and it's not critical to plot, but it made sense as a good Druid helper like Jump. It's more just an offering/hint to the Arabelle party to help us move past hours of pit trap madness that might otherwise endure if you guys don't figure out good tricks. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 12:11, 31 May 2012 (EDT)<blockquote>http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/bb3e96a6-0f5a-486b-a751-0012bd6c46bf/2012-05-31_1105.png</blockquote>

Detarame at 14:44, 31 May 2012

2012-05-31T14:44:37Z

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	*I don't hate it. It's really just a climby analogue to Jump, which makes this spell the more powerful if the two, at least in my opinion Climb is far more used and useful than jump. (I mean, unless you're a monk, in which case they are equal.) Honestly, of the three athlete-type skills (Jump, Swim, Climb), there's only one the average adventurer is doing on a nearly daily basis. For that reason, and to prevent a weakening of the already existent spider climb (I know, I know, no roof climbing, which is neat and all, but I'd argue that by the time you can cast Spider Climb, that Climb Walls spell gets you a +20 climb check, which turns spider climb into something useful ONLY for climbing on walls, or for when you need 10x the duration). I might suggest a +5/+10/+15 progression, so that in the mid-range levels there's still some stronger differentiation between the two spells, but there's nothing gamebreaking here that I see. Is it from some source or did you just make it up? I mean, feel free to do whatever you want - especially if this is arabelle plot critical or something - but if we're talking about a "canonical" version of this spell, those are my initial thoughts. Whatever the final copy, I don't see any reasons why Sor/Wiz don't get access to it, as well. They do for both Jump and Spider Climb. (Rangers do not get Spider Climb) [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		*I don't hate it. It's really just a climby analogue to Jump, which makes this spell the more powerful if the two, at least in my opinion Climb is far more used and useful than jump. (I mean, unless you're a monk, in which case they are equal.) Honestly, of the three athlete-type skills (Jump, Swim, Climb), there's only one the average adventurer is doing on a nearly daily basis. For that reason, and to prevent a weakening of the already existent spider climb (I know, I know, no roof climbing, which is neat and all, but I'd argue that by the time you can cast Spider Climb, that Climb Walls spell gets you a +20 climb check, which turns spider climb into something useful ONLY for climbing on walls, or for when you need 10x the duration). I might suggest a +5/+10/+15 progression, so that in the mid-range levels there's still some stronger differentiation between the two spells, but there's nothing gamebreaking here that I see. Is it from some source or did you just make it up? Looks like it came from the spell compendium, maybe? I mean, feel free to do whatever you want - especially if this is arabelle plot critical or something - but if we're talking about a "canonical" version of this spell, those are my initial thoughts. I mean, it's nothing overpowered, but I hate to see boilerplate spells and abilities become obsolesced due to feature creep. Whatever the final copy, I don't see any reasons why Sor/Wiz don't get access to it, as well. They do for both Jump and Spider Climb. (Rangers do not get Spider Climb) [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

	*I also think this leaves the way open for a Swim spell, and I think +10/+20/+30 is the natural progression there. (Since the swim skill gives you a de-facto swim movement speed). I also think there could be a cute cantrip version of this that maybe gives a +2 on your next Swim, Jump, or Climb check. Cantrips are so awesome. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		*I also think this leaves the way open for a Swim spell, and I think +10/+20/+30 is the natural progression there. (Since the swim skill gives you a de-facto swim movement speed). I also think there could be a cute cantrip version of this that maybe gives a +2 on your next Swim, Jump, or Climb check. Cantrips are so awesome. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

Detarame: Created page with "*I don't hate it. It's really just a climby analogue to Jump, which makes this spell the more powerful if the two, at least in my opinion Climb is far more used and useful than j..."

2012-05-31T14:41:35Z

Created page with "*I don't hate it. It's really just a climby analogue to Jump, which makes this spell the more powerful if the two, at least in my opinion Climb is far more used and useful than j..."

New page

*I don't hate it. It's really just a climby analogue to Jump, which makes this spell the more powerful if the two, at least in my opinion Climb is far more used and useful than jump. (I mean, unless you're a monk, in which case they are equal.) Honestly, of the three athlete-type skills (Jump, Swim, Climb), there's only one the average adventurer is doing on a nearly daily basis. For that reason, and to prevent a weakening of the already existent spider climb (I know, I know, no roof climbing, which is neat and all, but I'd argue that by the time you can cast Spider Climb, that Climb Walls spell gets you a +20 climb check, which turns spider climb into something useful ONLY for climbing on walls, or for when you need 10x the duration). I might suggest a +5/+10/+15 progression, so that in the mid-range levels there's still some stronger differentiation between the two spells, but there's nothing gamebreaking here that I see. Is it from some source or did you just make it up? I mean, feel free to do whatever you want - especially if this is arabelle plot critical or something - but if we're talking about a "canonical" version of this spell, those are my initial thoughts. Whatever the final copy, I don't see any reasons why Sor/Wiz don't get access to it, as well. They do for both Jump and Spider Climb. (Rangers do not get Spider Climb) [[User:Detarame|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

*I also think this leaves the way open for a Swim spell, and I think +10/+20/+30 is the natural progression there. (Since the swim skill gives you a de-facto swim movement speed). I also think there could be a cute cantrip version of this that maybe gives a +2 on your next Swim, Jump, or Climb check. Cantrips are so awesome. [[User:Detarame|absalom]] 10:41, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

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	::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)		::: Also I like the idea of cantrip +2 versions of these like you have for Spot/Listen I believe. :) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 13:36, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
	:::: I think the Prince of Persia would disagree with your synopsis of jump being less useful than climb. I think that is more a factor of the style of game we play than anything. Also, for the most part, the climb speed using the climb walls spells is ~7, and climbing something like a normal dungeon wall is a DC of 20, which is still not guaranteed with +10, and the DC is 25 to climb with speed ~15. I'd say spider climb is definitely a level more powerful given its 20 climb speed, ability to climb on ceilings and perfectly smooth walls, and a +8 to climb checks. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		:::: I think the Prince of Persia would disagree with your synopsis of jump being less useful than climb. I think that is more a factor of the style of game we play than anything. Also, for the most part, the climb speed using the climb walls spells is ~7, and climbing something like a normal dungeon wall is a DC of 20, which is still not guaranteed with +10, and the DC is 25 to climb with speed ~15. I'd say spider climb is definitely a level more powerful given its 20 climb speed, ability to climb on ceilings and perfectly smooth walls, and a +8 to climb checks. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			::::: There you go! Always fall back on the math, I guess. I'd still - for my sanity, anyway - make it a "rare" spell in my own games, (for divines, add one non-vanilla spell to spell list per level) which is mostly to keep druids' and clerics' spell lists under control. Also, Prince of Persia is a platform adventure game. All three abilities see a reasonable amount of use, I just think climb does in most every game. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 17:49, 31 May 2012 (EDT)