Talk:Crusader Cleric - Revision history

Slitherrr: Nitpick

2011-04-10T21:22:02Z

Nitpick

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	== Martial weapon ==		== Martial weapon ==
	I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to ~~tow~~ close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm		: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to toe close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm
	:: The issue I was looking at is #311. The sentence that grants it is kind of buried in the corner. (See [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/9f7e9e67-2f50-473e-a189-e818f8f9d0e4/2011-04-08_2203.png screenshot].) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: The issue I was looking at is #311. The sentence that grants it is kind of buried in the corner. (See [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/9f7e9e67-2f50-473e-a189-e818f8f9d0e4/2011-04-08_2203.png screenshot].) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Excellent!		::: Excellent!

Detarame at 03:27, 9 April 2011

2011-04-09T03:27:27Z

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	: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm		: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm
	:: The issue I was looking at is #311. The sentence that grants it is kind of buried in the corner. (See [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/9f7e9e67-2f50-473e-a189-e818f8f9d0e4/2011-04-08_2203.png screenshot].) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: The issue I was looking at is #311. The sentence that grants it is kind of buried in the corner. (See [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/9f7e9e67-2f50-473e-a189-e818f8f9d0e4/2011-04-08_2203.png screenshot].) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			::: Excellent!

Mattie: crusader and martial

2011-04-09T03:09:15Z

crusader and martial

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	I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm		: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm
			:: The issue I was looking at is #311. The sentence that grants it is kind of buried in the corner. (See [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/9f7e9e67-2f50-473e-a189-e818f8f9d0e4/2011-04-08_2203.png screenshot].) -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Detarame: /* Smite ability */

2011-04-08T23:51:26Z

Smite ability

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	:::::: Well, this one is straight out of a Dragon, so I'm loathe to tinker with it to the point of moving abilities up and down. Also, see above IRT my thoughts on where and how many smites. I don't think that "smite nonbeliever," as I laid it out with the "must be capable of HAVING beliefs" is all that unreasonable a definition. To be targeted, the created has to have a belief system. Which means it has to be intelligent enough to understand, let alone have, concepts like ethics and belief. Which, probably, weighs in about Int 5. I would think we can use that understanding and the ability's name "smite nonbeliever" as sufficient. Is it a zombie? No smite. Is it a Petaran? Smite. Is it a Vampire that believes in Alexandrianism but rejects following its tenets? Probably no smite. Is it a baby? Not smart enough to have smite yet. Is it a chair? No smite. Is it an atheist heretic guy SHAPE CHANGED into a chair? Smite. Is it an Ogre? Smite. Is it Al or Anise? Smite. Is it me? No smite. -gm		:::::: Well, this one is straight out of a Dragon, so I'm loathe to tinker with it to the point of moving abilities up and down. Also, see above IRT my thoughts on where and how many smites. I don't think that "smite nonbeliever," as I laid it out with the "must be capable of HAVING beliefs" is all that unreasonable a definition. To be targeted, the created has to have a belief system. Which means it has to be intelligent enough to understand, let alone have, concepts like ethics and belief. Which, probably, weighs in about Int 5. I would think we can use that understanding and the ability's name "smite nonbeliever" as sufficient. Is it a zombie? No smite. Is it a Petaran? Smite. Is it a Vampire that believes in Alexandrianism but rejects following its tenets? Probably no smite. Is it a baby? Not smart enough to have smite yet. Is it a chair? No smite. Is it an atheist heretic guy SHAPE CHANGED into a chair? Smite. Is it an Ogre? Smite. Is it Al or Anise? Smite. Is it me? No smite. -gm
	::::::: So I'm assuming ''Smite Nonbeliever'' is final, with GM clarifying as (rarely) needed? I'm totally cool with this ability only smiting semi-intelligent nonbeliever creatures-- I just didn't want it to change to "Smite Chosen Foe" as that's too weak, IMHO. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::::::: So I'm assuming ''Smite Nonbeliever'' is final, with GM clarifying as (rarely) needed? I'm totally cool with this ability only smiting semi-intelligent nonbeliever creatures-- I just didn't want it to change to "Smite Chosen Foe" as that's too weak, IMHO. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			::::::: Yeah, I don't see why not. Like I said, I think the definition you have there is good enough. -gm

	== Martial weapon ==		== Martial weapon ==
	I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm		: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm

Detarame at 23:12, 8 April 2011

2011-04-08T23:12:41Z

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	== Martial weapon ==		== Martial weapon ==
	I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			: Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to tow close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm

Mattie: finalized on smite nonbeliever, right? also single martial weapon?

2011-04-08T22:26:49Z

finalized on smite nonbeliever, right? also single martial weapon?

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	::::: Ugh, I really don't like ''Smite Foe'' because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's ''really'' weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::::: Ugh, I really don't like ''Smite Foe'' because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's ''really'' weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:::::: Well, this one is straight out of a Dragon, so I'm loathe to tinker with it to the point of moving abilities up and down. Also, see above IRT my thoughts on where and how many smites. I don't think that "smite nonbeliever," as I laid it out with the "must be capable of HAVING beliefs" is all that unreasonable a definition. To be targeted, the created has to have a belief system. Which means it has to be intelligent enough to understand, let alone have, concepts like ethics and belief. Which, probably, weighs in about Int 5. I would think we can use that understanding and the ability's name "smite nonbeliever" as sufficient. Is it a zombie? No smite. Is it a Petaran? Smite. Is it a Vampire that believes in Alexandrianism but rejects following its tenets? Probably no smite. Is it a baby? Not smart enough to have smite yet. Is it a chair? No smite. Is it an atheist heretic guy SHAPE CHANGED into a chair? Smite. Is it an Ogre? Smite. Is it Al or Anise? Smite. Is it me? No smite. -gm		:::::: Well, this one is straight out of a Dragon, so I'm loathe to tinker with it to the point of moving abilities up and down. Also, see above IRT my thoughts on where and how many smites. I don't think that "smite nonbeliever," as I laid it out with the "must be capable of HAVING beliefs" is all that unreasonable a definition. To be targeted, the created has to have a belief system. Which means it has to be intelligent enough to understand, let alone have, concepts like ethics and belief. Which, probably, weighs in about Int 5. I would think we can use that understanding and the ability's name "smite nonbeliever" as sufficient. Is it a zombie? No smite. Is it a Petaran? Smite. Is it a Vampire that believes in Alexandrianism but rejects following its tenets? Probably no smite. Is it a baby? Not smart enough to have smite yet. Is it a chair? No smite. Is it an atheist heretic guy SHAPE CHANGED into a chair? Smite. Is it an Ogre? Smite. Is it Al or Anise? Smite. Is it me? No smite. -gm
			::::::: So I'm assuming ''Smite Nonbeliever'' is final, with GM clarifying as (rarely) needed? I'm totally cool with this ability only smiting semi-intelligent nonbeliever creatures-- I just didn't want it to change to "Smite Chosen Foe" as that's too weak, IMHO. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]


			== Martial weapon ==
			I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Detarame at 21:57, 7 April 2011

2011-04-07T21:57:10Z

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	Yet, in my book, since they don't get a lot of smites (and get them only at 5th level+), pretty much any direction this goes is probably not going to wreck their balance. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		Yet, in my book, since they don't get a lot of smites (and get them only at 5th level+), pretty much any direction this goes is probably not going to wreck their balance. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			: I also think you're undervaluing smite quite a bit. The prototypical smite class - paladin - gets them at one level every five. If anything, I'm more inclined to believe that the Templar prestige gets TOO MANY smites. Since I take the prestige as overpowered, and probably shouldn't have any spell progression at all, so I'm not too sympathetic to the idea that a core class (which this is) is weak by comparison. Core classes are inherently weaker because they don't require any prereqs. -gm

	: A sensible restriction would be to have it only apply to humanoids. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		: A sensible restriction would be to have it only apply to humanoids. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
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	::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	::::: Ugh, I really don't like ''Smite Foe'' because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's ''really'' weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::::: Ugh, I really don't like ''Smite Foe'' because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's ''really'' weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			:::::: Well, this one is straight out of a Dragon, so I'm loathe to tinker with it to the point of moving abilities up and down. Also, see above IRT my thoughts on where and how many smites. I don't think that "smite nonbeliever," as I laid it out with the "must be capable of HAVING beliefs" is all that unreasonable a definition. To be targeted, the created has to have a belief system. Which means it has to be intelligent enough to understand, let alone have, concepts like ethics and belief. Which, probably, weighs in about Int 5. I would think we can use that understanding and the ability's name "smite nonbeliever" as sufficient. Is it a zombie? No smite. Is it a Petaran? Smite. Is it a Vampire that believes in Alexandrianism but rejects following its tenets? Probably no smite. Is it a baby? Not smart enough to have smite yet. Is it a chair? No smite. Is it an atheist heretic guy SHAPE CHANGED into a chair? Smite. Is it an Ogre? Smite. Is it Al or Anise? Smite. Is it me? No smite. -gm

Mattie: watering down

2011-04-07T13:31:04Z

watering down

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	:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm		:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm
	::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			::::: Ugh, I really don't like ''Smite Foe'' because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's ''really'' weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Msallen at 13:09, 7 April 2011

2011-04-07T13:09:08Z

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	:::: I would suppose that would include Humanoids, Monsterous Humanoids, but perhaps NOT undead because they're not int.		:::: I would suppose that would include Humanoids, Monsterous Humanoids, but perhaps NOT undead because they're not int.
	:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm		:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm
			::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

96.5.63.20 at 12:34, 7 April 2011

2011-04-07T12:34:36Z

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	:: I agree. Case closed! -gm		:: I agree. Case closed! -gm
	::: Including humanoids with the undead template, I assume? What about aberrations? -[[User:Slitherrr\|Slitherrr]]		::: Including humanoids with the undead template, I assume? What about aberrations? -[[User:Slitherrr\|Slitherrr]]
			:::: I would suppose that would include Humanoids, Monsterous Humanoids, but perhaps NOT undead because they're not int.
			:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:31, 7 April 2011
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	:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm		:::: You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. dusts off hands I think that should solve all our problems? -gm
	::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		::::: I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			::::: Ugh, I really don't like ''Smite Foe'' because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's ''really'' weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]