Talk:Feat: Inspired Madness - Revision history

Detarame at 21:40, 13 May 2011

2011-05-13T21:40:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:40, 13 May 2011
Line 3:		Line 3:
	:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm		:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm
	::: I like d4 and I don't think it's deterioration is going to be huge, except relative to the proper madness domain. Saves are a pretty big deal at high levels, and every little bit you have that can penetrate your target's defenses is pretty hot. A related idea would be to have some sufficiently difficult RP or mechanic ability that allows you to guarantee 4 for one day at some significant cost (murder an innocent, waive the bonus to DC but keep the associated penalty for a week, etc). --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		::: I like d4 and I don't think it's deterioration is going to be huge, except relative to the proper madness domain. Saves are a pretty big deal at high levels, and every little bit you have that can penetrate your target's defenses is pretty hot. A related idea would be to have some sufficiently difficult RP or mechanic ability that allows you to guarantee 4 for one day at some significant cost (murder an innocent, waive the bonus to DC but keep the associated penalty for a week, etc). --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			:::: Well, I mean the relative value of a lot of feats deteriorates at higher levels. Toughness is the most obvious example - 3 points is awesome at first level, but by 10th level even a mage couldn't care less. Even Combat Expertise is only so-so by level 16 because you need every point to hit monsters, and they're always going to hit you almost regardless of armorclass. A few unbounded ones - like Power Attack - have a much slower depreciation cycle, but even PA runs into similar problems. Saves, I think, are a big deal at any level which is another reason feats and abilities that add to DC are among the most "expensive" balance wise, even moreso than the To-Hit Bonus, which is like the gold standard for balance in D&D. -gm
			:::: Also - get to work on that RP thread! I don't want everyone holding their dicks for two hours because we're grabbassing in the library. -gm

Msallen at 14:41, 13 May 2011

2011-05-13T14:41:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:41, 13 May 2011
Line 2:		Line 2:
	: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm		:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm
			::: I like d4 and I don't think it's deterioration is going to be huge, except relative to the proper madness domain. Saves are a pretty big deal at high levels, and every little bit you have that can penetrate your target's defenses is pretty hot. A related idea would be to have some sufficiently difficult RP or mechanic ability that allows you to guarantee 4 for one day at some significant cost (murder an innocent, waive the bonus to DC but keep the associated penalty for a week, etc). --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

Detarame at 14:36, 13 May 2011

2011-05-13T14:36:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:36, 13 May 2011
Line 1:		Line 1:
	I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute) As a non-caster by nature, I can see why you might undervalue DC, but consider that in vanilla terms it takes a feat for every +1 you want to jack up your DC, and even then it's not universal it's restricted by school. -gm		I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute) As a non-caster by nature, I can see why you might undervalue DC, but consider that in vanilla terms it takes a feat for every +1 you want to jack up your DC, and even then it's not universal it's restricted by school. -gm
	: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm

Mattie: yeah, 1d6 is too big

2011-05-13T13:56:21Z

yeah, 1d6 is too big

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:56, 13 May 2011
Line 1:		Line 1:
	I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute) As a non-caster by nature, I can see why you might undervalue DC, but consider that in vanilla terms it takes a feat for every +1 you want to jack up your DC, and even then it's not universal it's restricted by school. -gm		I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute) As a non-caster by nature, I can see why you might undervalue DC, but consider that in vanilla terms it takes a feat for every +1 you want to jack up your DC, and even then it's not universal it's restricted by school. -gm
			: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Detarame at 13:03, 13 May 2011

2011-05-13T13:03:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:03, 13 May 2011
Line 1:		Line 1:
	I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute)		I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute) As a non-caster by nature, I can see why you might undervalue DC, but consider that in vanilla terms it takes a feat for every +1 you want to jack up your DC, and even then it's not universal it's restricted by school. -gm

Detarame: Created page with "I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in t..."

2011-05-13T12:35:39Z

Created page with "I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in t..."

New page

I think this is a good compromise, and I think it's especially clever with the flaw requirement. I think a d4 might be more appropriate and less overwhelming than a d6, both in terms of the penalty and the DC bonus. A Madness Cleric would have to wait until level 12 to get bonuses like that, whereas someone with this feat could be throwing around DC 22 entangles, hitting even level 2 rogues with 18 and 20 dexterity. (As compared to a DC 18, which is good but not unbeatable by a level-peer in their strong attribute)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:41, 13 May 2011
Line 2:		Line 2:
	: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		: Yeah, 1d4 sounds better, though is still a little strong, but since you can't really control it, maybe that makes up for it a little? I don't think I undervalue the spell DC quite as much as it seems, I just mentally didn't think about how this behaved in the early levels. My mind was stuck thinking of the higher level Madness domain, where everything gets so shifted. There's the option of 1d4-1 where 25% of days you awake without a penalty and it's never higher than a 3 bonus/negative. Yet, that would affect the flaw's balance versus the existing Weak-willed Flaw, though (which I want it to be rare for anyone to pick this one over that one). So maybe 1d4 is decent enough to try? -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm		:: Yeah, I agree. I think 1d4 is really good at early levels and slightly devalues over time, which I think is consistent with what most feats are all about. (As opposed to class abilities, which tend to get BETTER as levels are gained) I was actually thinking along the same lines as your 1d4-1 idea: reviving one of Eric's funky mechanics would go really well with the intent of this: (dX - dY) So, for example, d6-d4 gives a result between -3 and +5, with the average being +1. It's more complicated, but since it's only rolled once per day probably not that terrible. But, as you say, I would choose between either the variable mechanic or the flaw prerequisite, but probably not both. As it is, yeah, I think the d4 is probably good for now. If you're worried about balance and that the flaw is too weak still, which it very well maybe, consider adding the Listen and Spot feats to the penalty list with concentration. -gm
			::: I like d4 and I don't think it's deterioration is going to be huge, except relative to the proper madness domain. Saves are a pretty big deal at high levels, and every little bit you have that can penetrate your target's defenses is pretty hot. A related idea would be to have some sufficiently difficult RP or mechanic ability that allows you to guarantee 4 for one day at some significant cost (murder an innocent, waive the bonus to DC but keep the associated penalty for a week, etc). --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]