Talk:Gunthabairhts Andaila Audafuns Ahtafriths-Liudabadws' Character Sheet (Pathfinder) - Revision history

Bartley: /* Gnome Weapons and Traits, also other items to pick up */ new section

2016-02-10T19:50:15Z

Gnome Weapons and Traits, also other items to pick up: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, 10 February 2016
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	::::::::::: Also true, but mithril bp is 15 lbs (7.5 if you're small), and has max dex of +5 (and you still have a decent touch AC with it). But I agree that Pathfinder has probably overbalanced away from Dex, it's part of the reason why rogues are such an in-joke. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::::: Also true, but mithril bp is 15 lbs (7.5 if you're small), and has max dex of +5 (and you still have a decent touch AC with it). But I agree that Pathfinder has probably overbalanced away from Dex, it's part of the reason why rogues are such an in-joke. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
	:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

			== Gnome Weapons and Traits, also other items to pick up ==

			'''Traits:'''
			*sprint - If you do nothing but move in a turn (that is, if you run or use both of your actions in a round to move your speed) and you are in no armor or light armor, you may move an extra 5 feet.
			*naturally gifted - Wherever the truth lies, you gain an additional use of one of your gnome magic spell-like abilities each day. This does not always have to be the same spell-like ability—one day you might use dancing lights twice, only to use the additional casting for speak with animals the next day.
			*[Ship Aptitude] - You are used to crewing on many of the different types of ships. As a result, you have a knack for quickly determining the weaknesses and strengths of any ship, even ones you've never set foot on before. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Profession (sailor) checks, and Profession (sailor) becomes a class skill for you.
			'''weapons:'''- [http://archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Flask%20thrower Flask Thrower], [http://archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Shrillshaft%20javelin Shrillshaft Javelin], [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/crossbow-underwater Crossbow, Underwater], [http://archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Axe,%20boarding boarding axe]

Slitherrr at 16:49, 10 February 2016

2016-02-10T16:49:42Z

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	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
	:::::::::: That's true. Though, someone going that hard on dexterity is going to give up the strength required for heavy - or possibly even medium - armor. Dexterity bonus is like most easily lost bonus anyway. -gm		:::::::::: That's true. Though, someone going that hard on dexterity is going to give up the strength required for heavy - or possibly even medium - armor. Dexterity bonus is like most easily lost bonus anyway. -gm
			::::::::::: Also true, but mithril bp is 15 lbs (7.5 if you're small), and has max dex of +5 (and you still have a decent touch AC with it). But I agree that Pathfinder has probably overbalanced away from Dex, it's part of the reason why rogues are such an in-joke. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
	:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

Detarame at 03:01, 10 February 2016

2016-02-10T03:01:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:01, 10 February 2016
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	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
			:::::::::: That's true. Though, someone going that hard on dexterity is going to give up the strength required for heavy - or possibly even medium - armor. Dexterity bonus is like most easily lost bonus anyway. -gm
	:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

Bartley: /* Rebuild ideas */

2016-02-09T16:44:35Z

Rebuild ideas

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	=Rebuild ideas=		=Rebuild ideas=
	*[http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer#TOC-Stalker-Ex- Slayer] makes sense for flavor and provides more combat ability, but loses skills. [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/archetypes/paizo---slayer-archetypes/vanguard Vanguard] archetype for super-scout and team assistance.		*[http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer#TOC-Stalker-Ex- Slayer] makes sense for flavor and provides more combat ability, but loses skills. [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/archetypes/paizo---slayer-archetypes/vanguard Vanguard] archetype for super-scout and team assistance.
	*~~Archetyped rogue as before~~, ~~rebuild~~ to ~~get finesse asap~~.		** High Dex, High Perception, High Initiative makes for a great scout who is rarely caught off guard. The free teamwork feat and ability to give it to everyone at level 2 is pretty amazing. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:44, 9 February 2016 (EST)

	=Rules and Rulings=		=Rules and Rulings=

Bartley at 16:38, 9 February 2016

2016-02-09T16:38:01Z

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	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
	:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past ~~that~~ will still mostly be alternating slayer summoner ~~wth~~ probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

Bartley at 16:34, 9 February 2016

2016-02-09T16:34:41Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:34, 9 February 2016
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	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
			:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past that will still mostly be alternating slayer summoner wth probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

Slitherrr at 05:07, 9 February 2016

2016-02-09T05:07:32Z

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	:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
			::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])

Bartley at 04:45, 9 February 2016

2016-02-09T04:45:55Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:45, 9 February 2016
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			=Rebuild ideas=
			*[http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer#TOC-Stalker-Ex- Slayer] makes sense for flavor and provides more combat ability, but loses skills. [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/archetypes/paizo---slayer-archetypes/vanguard Vanguard] archetype for super-scout and team assistance.
			*Archetyped rogue as before, rebuild to get finesse asap.

	=Rules and Rulings=		=Rules and Rulings=
	This is a pretty damn ridiculous build, but if he somehow manages to survive to level 9 he'll be impressive: multiple arms wielding weapons that get weapon focus, arcane pool, spellstrike, sneak attack, can be thrown 20', or get dex bonus to damage in melee. Levels 3-5 will be tough in combat as he'll not be able to do much damage if denied sneak attack, and it won't take much damage to kill him, but he'll have a very wide range of skills and powers.--[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 05:32, 7 February 2016 (EST)		This is a pretty damn ridiculous build, but if he somehow manages to survive to level 9 he'll be impressive: multiple arms wielding weapons that get weapon focus, arcane pool, spellstrike, sneak attack, can be thrown 20', or get dex bonus to damage in melee. Levels 3-5 will be tough in combat as he'll not be able to do much damage if denied sneak attack, and it won't take much damage to kill him, but he'll have a very wide range of skills and powers.--[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 05:32, 7 February 2016 (EST)

Bartley at 03:52, 9 February 2016

2016-02-09T03:52:40Z

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	::::::: If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] ([[User talk:Detarame\|talk]]) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)		::::::: If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] ([[User talk:Detarame\|talk]]) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. ~~Maybe a~~ double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)

Bartley at 03:48, 9 February 2016

2016-02-09T03:48:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:48, 9 February 2016
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	::::::: If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] ([[User talk:Detarame\|talk]]) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)		::::::: If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] ([[User talk:Detarame\|talk]]) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)
			:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Maybe a double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:01, 10 February 2016
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	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
			:::::::::: That's true. Though, someone going that hard on dexterity is going to give up the strength required for heavy - or possibly even medium - armor. Dexterity bonus is like most easily lost bonus anyway. -gm
	:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:38, 9 February 2016
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	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
	:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past ~~that~~ will still mostly be alternating slayer summoner ~~wth~~ probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:34, 9 February 2016
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	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])		::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])
			:::::::::: Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past that will still mostly be alternating slayer summoner wth probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:07, 9 February 2016
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	:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)
			::::::::: It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -[[User:Slitherrr\|slitherrr]] ([[User talk:Slitherrr\|talk]])

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:52, 9 February 2016
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	::::::: If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] ([[User talk:Detarame\|talk]]) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)		::::::: If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] ([[User talk:Detarame\|talk]]) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat Slashing Grace] or [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat Dervish dance] and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile Agile enchantment], but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)
	:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. ~~Maybe a~~ double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)		:::::::: All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly [http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer slayer] in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --[[User:Bartley\|Bartley]] ([[User talk:Bartley\|talk]]) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)