Talk:Psionics - Revision history

Detarame at 21:08, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T21:08:36Z

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	::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.		::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.
	::: And, yes the page in that link is exactly what I'm talking about and was thinking of; I like most all of it, really, but we just need to decide in advance which options from the menu will make up the universe's mecehanics. For example, I'm not a huge fan of "specialty spells and powers," since there are already magic spells that give psionic abilities. I talked about alternate detections before and actively like them. FWiW, if these rules are adopted, the Mind Effecting Spells and Power seems to expressly rule out the reading you are giving the Freedom of Movement, as it clearly distinguishes between Magic and Psionic mind-effecting spells. Oh, also, the text for freedom of movement says "even under the influence of <b>magic</b> that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web." I believe the term that fancy lawyer types use is "exclusio alterius:" the inclusion is the exclusion of the other. Though, I would expect that if there was a psionic effect that generated a grapple - like TK or Ectoplasmic whatever - that magical freedom of movement would allow the dodge, since the section explicitly talks about Mind-Affecting, which is a defined descriptor and so takes a lot of the handwavy out of it. Patterns and Phantasms are also always defined as Mind-Affecting, so a Psionic Death Ward, or whatever the equivalent would be, would not protect from Phantasmal Killer or Color Spray. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 16:45, 28 April 2011 (EDT)		::: And, yes the page in that link is exactly what I'm talking about and was thinking of; I like most all of it, really, but we just need to decide in advance which options from the menu will make up the universe's mecehanics. For example, I'm not a huge fan of "specialty spells and powers," since there are already magic spells that give psionic abilities. I talked about alternate detections before and actively like them. FWiW, if these rules are adopted, the Mind Effecting Spells and Power seems to expressly rule out the reading you are giving the Freedom of Movement, as it clearly distinguishes between Magic and Psionic mind-effecting spells. Oh, also, the text for freedom of movement says "even under the influence of <b>magic</b> that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web." I believe the term that fancy lawyer types use is "exclusio alterius:" the inclusion is the exclusion of the other. Though, I would expect that if there was a psionic effect that generated a grapple - like TK or Ectoplasmic whatever - that magical freedom of movement would allow the dodge, since the section explicitly talks about Mind-Affecting, which is a defined descriptor and so takes a lot of the handwavy out of it. Patterns and Phantasms are also always defined as Mind-Affecting, so a Psionic Death Ward, or whatever the equivalent would be, would not protect from Phantasmal Killer or Color Spray. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 16:45, 28 April 2011 (EDT)
			:: TL;DR, I'm down with that whole page. -gm

	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Detarame at 21:05, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T21:05:37Z

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	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.		::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.
	::: And, yes the page in that link is exactly what I'm talking about, I like most all of it we just need to decide in advance which options from the menu will make up the universe's mecehanics. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 16:45, 28 April 2011 (EDT)		::: And, yes the page in that link is exactly what I'm talking about and was thinking of; I like most all of it, really, but we just need to decide in advance which options from the menu will make up the universe's mecehanics. For example, I'm not a huge fan of "specialty spells and powers," since there are already magic spells that give psionic abilities. I talked about alternate detections before and actively like them. FWiW, if these rules are adopted, the Mind Effecting Spells and Power seems to expressly rule out the reading you are giving the Freedom of Movement, as it clearly distinguishes between Magic and Psionic mind-effecting spells. Oh, also, the text for freedom of movement says "even under the influence of <b>magic</b> that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web." I believe the term that fancy lawyer types use is "exclusio alterius:" the inclusion is the exclusion of the other. Though, I would expect that if there was a psionic effect that generated a grapple - like TK or Ectoplasmic whatever - that magical freedom of movement would allow the dodge, since the section explicitly talks about Mind-Affecting, which is a defined descriptor and so takes a lot of the handwavy out of it. Patterns and Phantasms are also always defined as Mind-Affecting, so a Psionic Death Ward, or whatever the equivalent would be, would not protect from Phantasmal Killer or Color Spray. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 16:45, 28 April 2011 (EDT)

Detarame at 20:45, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T20:45:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:45, 28 April 2011
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	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.		::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.
			::: And, yes the page in that link is exactly what I'm talking about, I like most all of it we just need to decide in advance which options from the menu will make up the universe's mecehanics. [[User:Detarame\|absalom]] 16:45, 28 April 2011 (EDT)


	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Detarame at 20:05, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T20:05:18Z

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	: Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm		: Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm
	: I think I agree with all of the logic directly above that I cut. I'm just not good at putting theory stuff into rulespeak. -gm		: I think I agree with all of the logic directly above that I cut. I'm just not good at putting theory stuff into rulespeak. -gm

			Also: If it wasn't for having a second GM in the pool now, I wouldn't even need to codify. I could just rule on an ad hoc basis, but now some sort of consistency needs to be codified whatever it is..

Detarame at 20:00, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T20:00:32Z

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	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	: Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm		: Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm
			: I think I agree with all of the logic directly above that I cut. I'm just not good at putting theory stuff into rulespeak. -gm

Detarame at 19:59, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T19:59:38Z

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	: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm		: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm
	:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			::: Eh, I'm the Court of Last Resort, what do I care? My rulings are always sticky. -gm

	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.

	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			: Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm

Mattie: adding link to old-school psionics-is-different page for reference

2011-04-28T18:39:06Z

adding link to old-school psionics-is-different page for reference

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:39, 28 April 2011
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	:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Msallen at 18:31, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T18:31:15Z

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	Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm		: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm
			:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Mattie: my psispective

2011-04-28T18:30:16Z

my psispective

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:30, 28 April 2011
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	Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm		: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm

			:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Detarame at 17:05, 28 April 2011

2011-04-28T17:05:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:05, 28 April 2011
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	Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
			: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:39, 28 April 2011
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	:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:31, 28 April 2011
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	Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]
	: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm		: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm
			:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

	:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]