Talk:RP: Shameless Self-Promotion - Revision history

Detarame at 23:11, 30 July 2011

2011-07-30T23:11:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:11, 30 July 2011
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	:::: I'm sure I also only hinted at some of the things you are saying, but they are all part of the G-man's plans that he mentions. As I read the Most posts, they are pretty heavily focused on attacking so that's what I responded to mostly. It's fair to say that the geese and the walkers will be trying to dig into the history and background of the guild and the vampire of Wydmoor, as well as gather information about its activities, so we can hit them in the future. Also, that point you mentioned about how they are vulnerable when they step out of the shadows to strike at us isn't lost on my boy--he definitely thinks that is the best way to hit them now. I still hold my point on Mantatlus on account of we don't know where to hit him and I don't think he's really that important to the guild anyways. I think in conversation more of this would have come out, but when I'm just trying to reach a goal on an RP while I am at work, I didn't really have time to go so deep into things.		:::: I'm sure I also only hinted at some of the things you are saying, but they are all part of the G-man's plans that he mentions. As I read the Most posts, they are pretty heavily focused on attacking so that's what I responded to mostly. It's fair to say that the geese and the walkers will be trying to dig into the history and background of the guild and the vampire of Wydmoor, as well as gather information about its activities, so we can hit them in the future. Also, that point you mentioned about how they are vulnerable when they step out of the shadows to strike at us isn't lost on my boy--he definitely thinks that is the best way to hit them now. I still hold my point on Mantatlus on account of we don't know where to hit him and I don't think he's really that important to the guild anyways. I think in conversation more of this would have come out, but when I'm just trying to reach a goal on an RP while I am at work, I didn't really have time to go so deep into things.
	:::: I might have missed something about the last few encounters. I thought we attacked the guild in most of those (in the turtle temple, the sewers, and here). The only time they attacked us was when they killed our prisoners, and they fled once that was done and didn't really push that hard on killing us. Am I wrong? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]		:::: I might have missed something about the last few encounters. I thought we attacked the guild in most of those (in the turtle temple, the sewers, and here). The only time they attacked us was when they killed our prisoners, and they fled once that was done and didn't really push that hard on killing us. Am I wrong? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

			::::: That is true, the attackers ran away once the clerics were dead and the party put up mild resistance. The attack was not pressed. -gm


	== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==		== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==

Msallen: /* OOC: Mose and Germain */

2011-07-30T22:57:38Z

OOC: Mose and Germain

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:57, 30 July 2011
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	::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			:::: I'm sure I also only hinted at some of the things you are saying, but they are all part of the G-man's plans that he mentions. As I read the Most posts, they are pretty heavily focused on attacking so that's what I responded to mostly. It's fair to say that the geese and the walkers will be trying to dig into the history and background of the guild and the vampire of Wydmoor, as well as gather information about its activities, so we can hit them in the future. Also, that point you mentioned about how they are vulnerable when they step out of the shadows to strike at us isn't lost on my boy--he definitely thinks that is the best way to hit them now. I still hold my point on Mantatlus on account of we don't know where to hit him and I don't think he's really that important to the guild anyways. I think in conversation more of this would have come out, but when I'm just trying to reach a goal on an RP while I am at work, I didn't really have time to go so deep into things.
			:::: I might have missed something about the last few encounters. I thought we attacked the guild in most of those (in the turtle temple, the sewers, and here). The only time they attacked us was when they killed our prisoners, and they fled once that was done and didn't really push that hard on killing us. Am I wrong? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

	== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==		== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==

Msallen: /* Daniel 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) */

2011-07-30T22:47:43Z

Daniel 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:47, 30 July 2011
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	We've really gotten nowhere with all this debate and the game tonight is gonna be a little sad if we don't have any chance of doing something that feels even moderately useful.		We've really gotten nowhere with all this debate and the game tonight is gonna be a little sad if we don't have any chance of doing something that feels even moderately useful.
			: I'm down for a try on that, but I'm not sure that the sort of person who can summon giant Elementals will need to send a flesh and blood human to see if we lived. Like Egg was suggesting, he probably has a live feed. Al and Germ can check the place for tracks, though. In any case, I think we are in good shape for the game? Does it seem like we (mostly) agree on a plan? Expect a bit of a test wall from Germain at start of game. --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

Daniel: /* ~~~~ */ new section

2011-07-30T17:15:36Z

~~~~: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:15, 30 July 2011
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	::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

			== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==

			Could someone please check out what Quin said about trying to capture someone coming to investigate the trap and have them lead us back to the next person up who was responsible?

			We've really gotten nowhere with all this debate and the game tonight is gonna be a little sad if we don't have any chance of doing something that feels even moderately useful.

Mattie: /* OOC: Mose and Germain */

2011-07-30T04:51:52Z

OOC: Mose and Germain

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:51, 30 July 2011
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	::Otherwise, as written, Germain absolutely thinks that Mose is making stubborn and short sighted demands that are not supported by the party and will lead to the deaths of all the refugees and the loss of the war. He would prefer to drive Mose off so the party can figure out how to save the day without his toxic, disruptive influence, and then we calm him down once we have a plan in place. From Germain's perspective, he's tried to be diplomatic, but if Mose simply refuses to even try to listen or understand, the conversation is better off without him. It's kind of in your court, I guess. Germain certainly isn't going to make a huge effort to placate someone that is being completely unreasonable, but I do think '''some''' of the terseness comes from the format of the wiki rp limitations. --[[User:Msallen]]		::Otherwise, as written, Germain absolutely thinks that Mose is making stubborn and short sighted demands that are not supported by the party and will lead to the deaths of all the refugees and the loss of the war. He would prefer to drive Mose off so the party can figure out how to save the day without his toxic, disruptive influence, and then we calm him down once we have a plan in place. From Germain's perspective, he's tried to be diplomatic, but if Mose simply refuses to even try to listen or understand, the conversation is better off without him. It's kind of in your court, I guess. Germain certainly isn't going to make a huge effort to placate someone that is being completely unreasonable, but I do think '''some''' of the terseness comes from the format of the wiki rp limitations. --[[User:Msallen]]
	::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. ~~If they do come after us, drawing~~ them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

Mattie: /* OOC: Mose and Germain */ maybe a way to compromise?

2011-07-30T04:50:10Z

OOC: Mose and Germain: maybe a way to compromise?

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:50, 30 July 2011
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	== OOC: Mose and Germain ==		== OOC: Mose and Germain ==
	:MattA, if Germain's goal '''isn't''' to make Mose storm off and do ~~somethng~~ rash, then Germain is doing a very poor job of it. Your Sense Motive meter should be going through the roof that Mose is pretty much through with being belittled and he's adamant. As a player, I just assumed in your haste you didn't care much about adding the RP sparkles, but now after a few tries, my only conclusion is that it's on purpose, so I'll need to role-play the conclusion. I'm really trying to give Germain a chance to diplomagic Mose, but unless Germain says something more teamworky, things have to come to a head. Mose's little brain honestly cannot think of any upstanding reason to ignore the vampires without risking Silverwalkers lives (and therefore, he believes, the city's future). Germain knows how to babble but Mose knows how to battle-- and Mose's battle sense is very keen that we're all in grave danger and he won't be brushed-off about it. If that's your OOC plan to tilt Mose, then you're doing that great. If it's not, speak up, and we can assume that Germain soothes Mose with better wording... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 18:09, 29 July 2011 (EDT)		:MattA, if Germain's goal '''isn't''' to make Mose storm off and do something rash, then Germain is doing a very poor job of it. Your Sense Motive meter should be going through the roof that Mose is pretty much through with being belittled and he's adamant. As a player, I just assumed in your haste you didn't care much about adding the RP sparkles, but now after a few tries, my only conclusion is that it's on purpose, so I'll need to role-play the conclusion. I'm really trying to give Germain a chance to diplomagic Mose, but unless Germain says something more teamworky, things have to come to a head. Mose's little brain honestly cannot think of any upstanding reason to ignore the vampires without risking Silverwalkers lives (and therefore, he believes, the city's future). Germain knows how to babble but Mose knows how to battle-- and Mose's battle sense is very keen that we're all in grave danger and he won't be brushed-off about it. If that's your OOC plan to tilt Mose, then you're doing that great. If it's not, speak up, and we can assume that Germain soothes Mose with better wording... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 18:09, 29 July 2011 (EDT)
	::I think its fair to say that, if this were a format more suited to a back and forth, Germain would have held Mose's hand a little more though an explanation. But maybe you are also reading this different from I am, so let me spell it out how Germain sees it. Mose has made the exact same point, often in a disrespectful or frustrated way, four times now. The first three times, Germ and Egg made a genuine attempt to point out that, while we agree in theory, there significant issues with it in practice: we don't know where to find them, we don't know a target that isn't basically a lackey to our real enemy, and solving these problems will take a lot more time than we have. I think we've made good points without being dismissive, so if you're willing to fill in the gaps and assume we spent a little more careful time with Mose, then maybe he's stopped bulldogging the issue.		::I think its fair to say that, if this were a format more suited to a back and forth, Germain would have held Mose's hand a little more though an explanation. But maybe you are also reading this different from I am, so let me spell it out how Germain sees it. Mose has made the exact same point, often in a disrespectful or frustrated way, four times now. The first three times, Germ and Egg made a genuine attempt to point out that, while we agree in theory, there significant issues with it in practice: we don't know where to find them, we don't know a target that isn't basically a lackey to our real enemy, and solving these problems will take a lot more time than we have. I think we've made good points without being dismissive, so if you're willing to fill in the gaps and assume we spent a little more careful time with Mose, then maybe he's stopped bulldogging the issue.
	::Otherwise, as written, Germain absolutely thinks that Mose is making stubborn and short sighted demands that are not supported by the party and will lead to the deaths of all the refugees and the loss of the war. He would prefer to drive Mose off so the party can figure out how to save the day without his toxic, disruptive influence, and then we calm him down once we have a plan in place. From Germain's perspective, he's tried to be diplomatic, but if Mose simply refuses to even try to listen or understand, the conversation is better off without him. It's kind of in your court, I guess. Germain certainly isn't going to make a huge effort to placate someone that is being completely unreasonable, but I do think '''some''' of the terseness comes from the format of the wiki rp limitations. --[[User:Msallen]]		::Otherwise, as written, Germain absolutely thinks that Mose is making stubborn and short sighted demands that are not supported by the party and will lead to the deaths of all the refugees and the loss of the war. He would prefer to drive Mose off so the party can figure out how to save the day without his toxic, disruptive influence, and then we calm him down once we have a plan in place. From Germain's perspective, he's tried to be diplomatic, but if Mose simply refuses to even try to listen or understand, the conversation is better off without him. It's kind of in your court, I guess. Germain certainly isn't going to make a huge effort to placate someone that is being completely unreasonable, but I do think '''some''' of the terseness comes from the format of the wiki rp limitations. --[[User:Msallen]]
			::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. If they do come after us, drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]

74.68.100.149: /* OOC: Mose and Germain */

2011-07-30T03:03:24Z

OOC: Mose and Germain

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:03, 30 July 2011
Line 167:		Line 167:
	== OOC: Mose and Germain ==		== OOC: Mose and Germain ==
	:MattA, if Germain's goal '''isn't''' to make Mose storm off and do somethng rash, then Germain is doing a very poor job of it. Your Sense Motive meter should be going through the roof that Mose is pretty much through with being belittled and he's adamant. As a player, I just assumed in your haste you didn't care much about adding the RP sparkles, but now after a few tries, my only conclusion is that it's on purpose, so I'll need to role-play the conclusion. I'm really trying to give Germain a chance to diplomagic Mose, but unless Germain says something more teamworky, things have to come to a head. Mose's little brain honestly cannot think of any upstanding reason to ignore the vampires without risking Silverwalkers lives (and therefore, he believes, the city's future). Germain knows how to babble but Mose knows how to battle-- and Mose's battle sense is very keen that we're all in grave danger and he won't be brushed-off about it. If that's your OOC plan to tilt Mose, then you're doing that great. If it's not, speak up, and we can assume that Germain soothes Mose with better wording... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 18:09, 29 July 2011 (EDT)		:MattA, if Germain's goal '''isn't''' to make Mose storm off and do somethng rash, then Germain is doing a very poor job of it. Your Sense Motive meter should be going through the roof that Mose is pretty much through with being belittled and he's adamant. As a player, I just assumed in your haste you didn't care much about adding the RP sparkles, but now after a few tries, my only conclusion is that it's on purpose, so I'll need to role-play the conclusion. I'm really trying to give Germain a chance to diplomagic Mose, but unless Germain says something more teamworky, things have to come to a head. Mose's little brain honestly cannot think of any upstanding reason to ignore the vampires without risking Silverwalkers lives (and therefore, he believes, the city's future). Germain knows how to babble but Mose knows how to battle-- and Mose's battle sense is very keen that we're all in grave danger and he won't be brushed-off about it. If that's your OOC plan to tilt Mose, then you're doing that great. If it's not, speak up, and we can assume that Germain soothes Mose with better wording... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 18:09, 29 July 2011 (EDT)
			::I think its fair to say that, if this were a format more suited to a back and forth, Germain would have held Mose's hand a little more though an explanation. But maybe you are also reading this different from I am, so let me spell it out how Germain sees it. Mose has made the exact same point, often in a disrespectful or frustrated way, four times now. The first three times, Germ and Egg made a genuine attempt to point out that, while we agree in theory, there significant issues with it in practice: we don't know where to find them, we don't know a target that isn't basically a lackey to our real enemy, and solving these problems will take a lot more time than we have. I think we've made good points without being dismissive, so if you're willing to fill in the gaps and assume we spent a little more careful time with Mose, then maybe he's stopped bulldogging the issue.
			::Otherwise, as written, Germain absolutely thinks that Mose is making stubborn and short sighted demands that are not supported by the party and will lead to the deaths of all the refugees and the loss of the war. He would prefer to drive Mose off so the party can figure out how to save the day without his toxic, disruptive influence, and then we calm him down once we have a plan in place. From Germain's perspective, he's tried to be diplomatic, but if Mose simply refuses to even try to listen or understand, the conversation is better off without him. It's kind of in your court, I guess. Germain certainly isn't going to make a huge effort to placate someone that is being completely unreasonable, but I do think '''some''' of the terseness comes from the format of the wiki rp limitations. --[[User:Msallen]]

Mattie: Germain has gone rogue?

2011-07-29T22:09:03Z

Germain has gone rogue?

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	I think that's the gist of what you said?		I think that's the gist of what you said?
	</i>		</i>

			== OOC: Mose and Germain ==
			:MattA, if Germain's goal '''isn't''' to make Mose storm off and do somethng rash, then Germain is doing a very poor job of it. Your Sense Motive meter should be going through the roof that Mose is pretty much through with being belittled and he's adamant. As a player, I just assumed in your haste you didn't care much about adding the RP sparkles, but now after a few tries, my only conclusion is that it's on purpose, so I'll need to role-play the conclusion. I'm really trying to give Germain a chance to diplomagic Mose, but unless Germain says something more teamworky, things have to come to a head. Mose's little brain honestly cannot think of any upstanding reason to ignore the vampires without risking Silverwalkers lives (and therefore, he believes, the city's future). Germain knows how to babble but Mose knows how to battle-- and Mose's battle sense is very keen that we're all in grave danger and he won't be brushed-off about it. If that's your OOC plan to tilt Mose, then you're doing that great. If it's not, speak up, and we can assume that Germain soothes Mose with better wording... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]] 18:09, 29 July 2011 (EDT)

Detarame: /* Some other OOC thoughts */

2011-07-29T18:18:54Z

Some other OOC thoughts

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	* Could we start pressing/negotiating for a surrender or a peace? Perhaps we should become emissaries to get negotiations started with Odessa? Germain's political ability may make this successful. I mean we don't even really know the details of why they're waging the war and what they'd accept for negotiations... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		* Could we start pressing/negotiating for a surrender or a peace? Perhaps we should become emissaries to get negotiations started with Odessa? Germain's political ability may make this successful. I mean we don't even really know the details of why they're waging the war and what they'd accept for negotiations... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	** Ironically enough, Matt Allen and I were just griping over the situation and I came up with a primer that might be instructive here for that last part, at least		** Ironically enough, Matt Allen and I were just griping over the situation and I came up with a primer that might be instructive here for that last part, at least
	**<i>Oh, yeah! Absolutely! And, now you have a classical he said she said thing.		<i>Oh, yeah! Absolutely! And, now you have a classical he said she said thing.

	Naprid: I only did that as a response for your invasion!		Naprid: I only did that as a response for your invasion!

Detarame: /* Some other OOC thoughts */

2011-07-29T18:18:32Z

Some other OOC thoughts

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	Further, I can offer the ancient recovered armor and weapons to the Church as a sign of my integrity and hope that it is enough to gain audience with members of The Stand or Marrwyn to plead our case. Surely they will send Holy Militants or other forces to help rid our city of the evil vampires, help the pilgrims, and restore order.</blockquote>-[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		Further, I can offer the ancient recovered armor and weapons to the Church as a sign of my integrity and hope that it is enough to gain audience with members of The Stand or Marrwyn to plead our case. Surely they will send Holy Militants or other forces to help rid our city of the evil vampires, help the pilgrims, and restore order.</blockquote>-[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	* Could we start pressing/negotiating for a surrender or a peace? Perhaps we should become emissaries to get negotiations started with Odessa? Germain's political ability may make this successful. I mean we don't even really know the details of why they're waging the war and what they'd accept for negotiations... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		* Could we start pressing/negotiating for a surrender or a peace? Perhaps we should become emissaries to get negotiations started with Odessa? Germain's political ability may make this successful. I mean we don't even really know the details of why they're waging the war and what they'd accept for negotiations... -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			** Ironically enough, Matt Allen and I were just griping over the situation and I came up with a primer that might be instructive here for that last part, at least
			**<i>Oh, yeah! Absolutely! And, now you have a classical he said she said thing.

			Naprid: I only did that as a response for your invasion!

			Odessans: Bullshit, it's the whole reason we invaded!

			Repeat. I honestly somewhat regret that scheme, only because instead of making everyone a little suspect it made Naprid too easy to see as the root cause of everything. But, no, it''ll be all good.

			But, ambiguous is right. The Wraiths have been working with the Odessans for years, keeping order in the part of Alexia Odessa can't reach and doesn't really care so much about.

			Review of Odessa/Wydmoor Relations. May or may not be useful. Sequence of events is from memory, so could be a little off. Also, variable amounts of time passes between each of these.

			1. Odessa goes into hock to Bank of Wydmoor, rasing tons of money for unknown reasons. Possibly to continue to pay for occupation of Alexia. Possibly to pay for this very attack. Or, possibly for some unknown reason.

			2. The Odessans had been contracting with the Bog Wraiths for many years, hiring them to maintain order in the Alexian Capital and surrounds.

			3. The Bog Wraiths, in order to neutralize the Bandit Saint, take him into the Bog Wraiths company, but relocate him and many of his men to Alexandria City

			4. Ralth leaves for Wydmoor and the High Command, is replaced as one of the Arch-Warden commanders by Bandit Saint.

			5. Odessan invasion and subseqeuent.


			The Odessans, when they finally gave reason for the attack, the accusation was that the Bog Wraiths and Bank had colluded and been intentionally funneling money and support into making Odessa's occupation more difficult in Alexia, for the purpose of forcing Odessa to take out loans to pay for said occupation.

			I think that's the gist of what you said?
			</i>

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	::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Your response does help clarify. I think the confusion lies in a difference of perception. We've been attacked and almost killed by wererats in the last three game sessions, and so it's all very immediate in-game. Maybe it has a different feeling to you OOC because you got some of those sessions secondhand? Or maybe you think they're going to leave us alone? They just ambushed us openly in the streets of Wydmoor and nearly killed Kimika. Do you have some intel that says they won't be ambushing us again any second now? Mose isn't saying kill the Thieves' Guild but wants to stop the ambushes once and for all. I think Mose would be happy to help refugees instead, etc, if someone gave him some indication that you were taking this ''immediate'' threat to our lives seriously, since this all just happened to the party and we're still reeling. But this time Germain walks in, changes his tune, and now we're ignoring this imminent threat? Regardless, even when Germain sees things differently, every other time a different position came up, Germain was willing to compromise and brainstorm. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
	::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]		::: Anyway, this has gotten Mose into such a headache of an RP position. Would Germain agree that the wererats and Mantatlus assassins are a real threat (or confuse Mose enough to think they're not) and propose some steps we can take to protect ourselves while we pursued other important goals? Even saying something like "We're not ignoring them, Mose-- it's all part of my plan. The best way to find them is to bring them out after us again. As usual, let's stock up on See-Invis potions and Silversheen, and [other items useful fighting these undead]. When they inevitably come to ambush us again, they won't survive a fight where we're actually ready for them. Drawing them to us is the best option we have until we have real info gathered from our sources." Or maybe I can coax Quinalin or Egg into saying that if you feel it's not a good situation for Germain to compromise on. Mose would be very much on board if there wasn't this unrealistic dismissal of what has transpired the past few days in-game. -[[User:Mattie\|Mattie]]
			:::: I'm sure I also only hinted at some of the things you are saying, but they are all part of the G-man's plans that he mentions. As I read the Most posts, they are pretty heavily focused on attacking so that's what I responded to mostly. It's fair to say that the geese and the walkers will be trying to dig into the history and background of the guild and the vampire of Wydmoor, as well as gather information about its activities, so we can hit them in the future. Also, that point you mentioned about how they are vulnerable when they step out of the shadows to strike at us isn't lost on my boy--he definitely thinks that is the best way to hit them now. I still hold my point on Mantatlus on account of we don't know where to hit him and I don't think he's really that important to the guild anyways. I think in conversation more of this would have come out, but when I'm just trying to reach a goal on an RP while I am at work, I didn't really have time to go so deep into things.
			:::: I might have missed something about the last few encounters. I thought we attacked the guild in most of those (in the turtle temple, the sewers, and here). The only time they attacked us was when they killed our prisoners, and they fled once that was done and didn't really push that hard on killing us. Am I wrong? --[[User:Msallen\|Msallen]]

	== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==		== [[User:Daniel\|Daniel]] 13:15, 30 July 2011 (EDT) ==