Talk:The Azure Geese

DONE! Praise Alexandria! --74.68.100.149

I love these names!

Thoughts From On High: Considering Wydmoor is a nexus of outcasts from at least three different cultures, I'm surprised all of your followers are Wydmoor natives. There is something to be said for that, and it totally makes sense, but you might want to consider that a few of these cats immigrants, you can access some other Knowledge: Local locales. -gm

Yeah, I agree. With those first 6 I wanted them strongly tied to the refugees, but I think I do need to branch out for some more worldly types. I got some good ideas on this front. --Msallen

One horrible thing about the "levels" of NPC classes is that they don't correspond to actual levels--the CR of an NPC with a single level in a PC class is actually 1/2. Another Tome tweak (and I'm going to talk about this thing until the day I die, THANKS JONES) is to make Leadership correspond to CRs rather than levels for followers (and make the cohort be always PC level - 2, period), allowing the followers to be made up of anything that makes sense (18 CR 1/3 dogs, anyone?). -Slitherrr

I actually like the 1/2 CR for NPC levels thing, and generally stick to that when tabulating XP. I also basically make the Cohort gain levels when you do, though I have some homebrew rules I'm spitballing in my head to deal with potential balance issues from Item Creation Cohorts like Egg. I'm actually not against subbing in (reasonable and appropriate) CR monsters in place of humanoid followers, but I'm not adopting any new tables that aren't from the core guide. So, yeah, if you want to have your 10 level one followers be 20 dogs and your cohort be an animal trainer and open a kennel, that's all good. The more diversity in Leadership the better, but OTOH, I look at Leadership as much more of an Off-Camera activity, rather than endless waves of meatshields. -gm

Ok to give better equipment to the aristocrat? --Msallen

Only marginally better. She's still essentially a refugee.

For the sake of sanity, these first 10 followers - plus your punishment aristocrat - will be the "middle management" of your operation. They'll be the ones to advance in level as your score increases, and the new level ones will be the faceless drones you only interact with at the office Explosion Day party. Cohorts levels will always be dictated by leadership score, with all rule-based maximums in effect.

This applies to Kib. But, only a stable of 10. He doesn't have a punishment aristocrat.

I might make a rule than when you hit leadership 20, your stable opens to 12 if it becomes an issue, but I doubt it will. I sort of expect these guys to be more flavor than sustenance. -gm

Oops, stats start at 8 with a point buy system here. Gotta redo some shit :( --Msallen

What is this mess? Egg already recruited your six followers out of the refugee camps? -gm

Speaking of nonsense - doesn't it seem a little ODD that your flunkies have *way* better stats than the cohort or even the party? Not even Sayid got 36 points.

I think those PCs got 36 or 38 actually. I looked through my old character sheets the other night and found his 2nd ed version right before the conversion--you should see the stat bloat! Once I can scan it, I'll post it here :) --Msallen

Learn to count.

Your punishment - your first level 2 follower shall be a minor, displaced ARISTOCRAT. -gm

Ok! --Msallen

I'm sure you'll make the best of it. -gm

Also, what's up with a follower having a hero array and a PC level? -Slitherrr

Damn you, you sent me an email telling me to make 6 24-point characters with the following classes: 2x professional, 2x fighter, 2x rogue. Its not my fault that pills and liquor have addled your brain and you can't remember what's going on anymore! --Msallen

Haha, I agree. Though, in fact, it was probably the booze that made me say PC classes.

In fact, I was actually confused because I made a post to the wiki last night that didn't seem to take where I said Cohort = PC Class; Follower = NPC class. Just take the same point buy, and make them Warriors & Experts, but probably not adepts or aristocrats. This actually shouldn't screw up your plans and party too much.

In fact, I *do* appreciate not having to come up with personalities and such. -gm

Yeah, these are easy to manage as NPC classes. Can I have one adept? --Msallen

I didn't think it would really mess up your plans too much. And, yes, you may have a single shaman OR adept, but not both. -gm

So, tl'dr - I thought I had made a post about this last night, but it seems not to have saved. Boo.

The only thing not covered somewhere else by now, especially relevant after today -> I think the arguments about "simulationism" have merit, but are not exactly totally aligned with each other. The weight and coin problem, for example, I agree isn't worth really losing sleep over when you're talking about the few dozen coin you pick up off random pushovers. That is wallet money and probably gets cashed up or down without much hassle at various inns. However, at some point, I consider a score large enough that it transcends petty accounting legalism and becomes a legitimate "logistics puzzle" of its own. When you're talking about something like a dragon horde, for example, that has a great amount of mixed coin and armor loot, there's no reason to think the party can just whisk away everything, and so sorting out the opportunity costs of the initial grab become a de facto challenge all its own. Additionally, in terms of armor and equipment, keeping track of weights becomes a game balance issue in addition to an accounting one: it's hardly fair that someone like you, or helen, or trav, or Sarah should be able to lug around as much stuff as someone who bought up to 16 strength. Now, the bag of holding helps, but at the end of the day I think items with non-negligible weight and/or bulk like weapons, armor, shields, pianos, or animal companions need to be tracked versus encumbrance. Not only to make sure that the 8 strength bard isn't walking around with three sorts of armor and 6 types of weapon. Nitpicking is one thing, but the trade off quandaries provided by encumbrance are a wide enough gaming value and expectation that they appear across the board, from roguelikes, to cRPGs to tabletop. We're not talking material components for spells here or tracking every torch, some of these are reasonable thinks to track the encumbrance of. -gm

Yawn. I was having trouble sleeping, but this totally helped. Thanks! --Msallen

Your email made me think I was going to get a map update! :P

I drew some more rivers, but I didn't make huge progress. Still, at this point, I think I only have to do the waterways in the northeast then I'm done with them for a while. --Msallen

I look forward to seeing the breakdown when you have 128 first level followers.

I think a handful of examples will be sufficient! --Msallen

Well, I also assume (other than your 2nd level punitive aristocrat), when you get higher level followers, it'll just be this original stable of "favorites" advancing, and lower level nobodies replacing them. Kind of like being in on the ground floor of a startup. It also means that Kib's buddy can at least have ambitions up to 5th or 6th level as an extra. Heh. -gm

The aristocrat must always be your highest level follower. Though, on the up side, it might help legitimize your operation. -gm

And, since that's harsh, you can pick which client family he (or she) come from. -gm

Yeah, I was actually thinking that the aristocrat wasn't much of a punishment to be honest. They are shittier than the warrior or the expert, but not by much, and all these guys are shitty. But the RP side of an aristocrat is pretty cool, even if he comes from a minor house. --Msallen

Uldern

Good Alexandria, Kib has GOT to get to Wydmoor. -Slitherrr

It's great here! Look out for vampires and lizard men! --74.68.100.149

I was kind of proud of that connection, I hope Kib isn't too disappointed in his childhood friend's inability to acquire a "real" class. -gm

I audited him slightly to be more in line with his attributes. If he was a PC class, I would envision him as a fighter primary, professional secondary like Quinn. --Msallen

It's ok, if he ever became a cohort or anything, the PC levels would replace his NPC levels. -Slitherrr

The Name

Its not official yet, I just put it here because that's what it is going to be. I'll announce it to my men with ceremony and probably some symbolic banners/jewelery/branding when I decide its the best time to do so. --Msallen

If you drive off the siege, you can expect to be awarded with some sort of official recognition and entitlement, giving you the rights to such and boosting that reputation bonus to +2. -gm

Wooooooo!