Talk:Crusader Cleric

Smite ability

Discussed this a bit with GM. He mentioned that Alexandrian faithful are everyone who goes through the Eight Rites. This applies to pretty much everyone born in the Mainland. His words: "Are they following the church sacraments and going through the rites of passage? No smite."

In theory, though, this means you can smite animals, plants, elementals, aberrations, undead (?), or other things that don't have religion, right? You can't smite a Mainlander, but you can smite the horse they rode in on? (I'm intentionally being broad/silly here to help flesh out the clarification.) Or must they be intelligent things?

Yet, in my book, since they don't get a lot of smites (and get them only at 5th level+), pretty much any direction this goes is probably not going to wreck their balance. -Mattie

I also think you're undervaluing smite quite a bit. The prototypical smite class - paladin - gets them at one level every five. If anything, I'm more inclined to believe that the Templar prestige gets TOO MANY smites. Since I take the prestige as overpowered, and probably shouldn't have any spell progression at all, so I'm not too sympathetic to the idea that a core class (which this is) is weak by comparison. Core classes are inherently weaker because they don't require any prereqs. -gm

A sensible restriction would be to have it only apply to humanoids. --Msallen

I agree. Case closed! -gm

Including humanoids with the undead template, I assume? What about aberrations? -Slitherrr

I would suppose that would include Humanoids, Monsterous Humanoids, but perhaps NOT undead because they're not int.

You know, I have an even SIMPLER and BETTER idea. Smite Foe. You can only smite one of your chosen enemy types, regardless of alignment. *dusts off hands* I think that should solve all our problems? -gm

I like either non-undead humaniods or smite foe. I think either is a broad enough category on a rare enough power that it's mostly just flavor. --Msallen

Ugh, I really don't like Smite Foe because he has a built in big bonus already (+4/+4) and can turn them. He'll be useless at 5th level when not fighting orcs or whatever he picked (I already think he's really weak when not fighting his chosen foe for the first 5-6 levels). Smite Nonbeliever at least gives him some bonus in other situations. If you must nerf the smite at least make it Smite (any) Servitor/Undead and put it at an earlier level so he can actually do something in other combat situations. I mean, the guy is giving up his domain abilities, domains (including 1 spell mem per day/level), etc, so that he can solely focus on one specific creature for 25% of his life and 1-2 for 50% of his life? -Mattie

Well, this one is straight out of a Dragon, so I'm loathe to tinker with it to the point of moving abilities up and down. Also, see above IRT my thoughts on where and how many smites. I don't think that "smite nonbeliever," as I laid it out with the "must be capable of HAVING beliefs" is all that unreasonable a definition. To be targeted, the created has to have a belief system. Which means it has to be intelligent enough to understand, let alone have, concepts like ethics and belief. Which, probably, weighs in about Int 5. I would think we can use that understanding and the ability's name "smite nonbeliever" as sufficient. Is it a zombie? No smite. Is it a Petaran? Smite. Is it a Vampire that believes in Alexandrianism but rejects following its tenets? Probably no smite. Is it a baby? Not smart enough to have smite yet. Is it a chair? No smite. Is it an atheist heretic guy SHAPE CHANGED into a chair? Smite. Is it an Ogre? Smite. Is it Al or Anise? Smite. Is it me? No smite. -gm

So I'm assuming Smite Nonbeliever is final, with GM clarifying as (rarely) needed? I'm totally cool with this ability only smiting semi-intelligent nonbeliever creatures-- I just didn't want it to change to "Smite Chosen Foe" as that's too weak, IMHO. -Mattie

Yeah, I don't see why not. Like I said, I think the definition you have there is good enough. -gm

Martial weapon

I noticed in Dragon that Crusader also got to pick one martial weapon to be proficient with. Does that carry over into your world, too, or did you purposely exclude that? -Mattie

Is this from the same issue? I must have missed that. Absolutely did not mean to. Like I said, I tend to try to toe close to the line when moving stuff from official sources, though I'm also on record as thinking a lot of the late-stage 3.5e stuff is waaaaaay overpowered. -gm

The issue I was looking at is #311. The sentence that grants it is kind of buried in the corner. (See screenshot.) -Mattie

Excellent!