Difference between revisions of "Talk:Dragoman"

Revision as of 20:34, 16 March 2010

I thought sneak attack was a weird class ability for a diplomat/translator. Here are some other suggestions from the complete adventurer:

Skill Mastery - So confident in the use of certain skills that he can take 10 even stress or distraction would normally present it. This feature is pretty popular, and is usually around 3 skills, although some give much more. I might suggest diplomacy and sense motive, with maybe one of: listen, bluff, intimidate.

Sustaining Presence - Can call upon his force of personality to stay alive in tense or dangerous situations, adding charisma bonus to concentration checks and fortitude saves. Other variants follow this forumula: apply stat bonus to 1 save and 1 skill.

Bardic Lore - Can call upon extensive background knowledge of history and culture gleaned from travel, study, and socializing to recall legends or information regarding various topics. Based on Dragoman level, and stacks with any previous version of the skill.

Inspire Competence - An ally within 30 feet who can see and hear Dragoman get a +2/3 bonus to skill checks using a specific skill. Like a bard ability, but lets the Dragoman strengthen his allies diplomacy skills.

Bardic Lore is already there! 75.64.111.120 19:26, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Matt: Does Skill Mastery taking a 10 still require 10 times as long? 75.64.111.120 19:39, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Taking 10 doesn't take extra time--its just settling for the average in a low-stress situation. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as a normal skill check, and assumes you are trying over and over until you roll a 20.

You should add Knowledge (Geography) to the list of class skills. Do hide, move silently, slight of hand, and use rope have a flavor reason for being there? Or are they just there so this class isn't a complete wash on combat skills? Jump, swim, craft, and profession I know are almost gimmies for all classes, but these others seem a little odd.

--Msallen 18:47, 2 February 2009 (EST)

That sounds about right, but they're not organs of state, so an indivudal dragoman can be honest or rather shady and sly. Detarame 19:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)

• Ahh, good to know! Ok, glad that clears up taking a 10. Hide, Slight of Hand, and Move Silently are very much urban based skills. After all, not ALL Dragomen are upstanding and honest guides, many are frauds and hucksters who use their knowledge of the cities to defraud people. Knowledge Geo was a definite oversight. 96.4.191.21 13:51, 6 February 2009 (EST)
• Oh, and as any sailor or boy scout ought to be able to tell you, the ability to tie knots is super useful, like for tying down pack animals and such, but I'll go ahead and excise it anyway. The snares and such it is commonly associated with don't make much sense, I agree. 96.4.191.21 13:52, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Got it. I didn't really know what a Dragoman was, so I was just going on the wikipedia article that describes it as a translator and mediator. With the huckster bit it makes a lot more sense --Msallen 15:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Re: The Level 5 abilities, do the targets know if someone attempted to Charm or Confuse them if the Dragoman fails? Also, does it make sense for the DC not to be modified by Will Save, or similarly, should the DC be shifted over to the target and made into a Will Save modified by the pertinent ability? -Slitherrr

I read it as a Charm Person spell with the DC and duration specified by the special ability. Which would involve a will save, right? --Msallen

Yeah, you're right, that's a brain fart on my part. -Slitherrr

Is the 1st level ability intentionally untyped? Would it stack with, say, a breastplate of command? --Msallen

Seems like that would make it pretty dad-gum powerful. Of course, it's already pretty dad-gum powerful. In fact, as it's worded, it might make an insane synergy for Sorcerers/Wizards--I'd have to check the Reference, though. -Slitherrr

What sort of synergy bonuses are you thinking? It only applies to skill checks as its worded now... not any sort of class feature like spell DCs, or even animal empathy checks. --Msallen

"Grants a +3 on charisma checks and charisma-based skill checks" doesn't sound like just skills to me. I just don't know what else uses Charisma that is considered a check--it certainly wouldn't add to things like base spells, but I'm thinking that there are spell effects that would get a boost from this (not sure, though). Either way, the way it is currently worded very explicitly states that more than just skill checks are affected, but in a non-specific way. Whether or not that is a game-breaking super-synergy situation would take some crawling through docs to determine.

Also, just to note, even if it were just skills, Animal Empathy would be included because it "functions just like a Diplomacy check".

-Slitherrr

Duh. Shows my attention to detail. I had this chat with GM a while back. I guess the next question is *should* it only be skill checks. Natually, I would be happy to have it apply to my animal empathy checks, but is that broken? Breastplate of command is only skill checks, I believe. --Msallen

Oh, also... I read that animal empathy comment as "uses the diplomacy table", but not that it was considered a skill. If we read it that it does, would that set animal empathy apart from something like Legend Lore (bard/dragoman ability).

Yeah, I don't mind it being on animal empathy checks. I'm far more concerned with it being used for UMD checks. -gm