Talk:Favored Soul

Wings Alternatives

I would love to personalize this by creating some sort of alt-ability that isn't fucking wings. -gm

Elemental / Outsider Companion

What about a DM-chosen elemental/outsider companion of 12 HD? (I.e. somewhat like the creatures from Planar Ally.) For balance purposes, I think Druid animal companions are like 16-18 hit dice at this level, a Paladin mount would be ~12HD in this range, and a Leadership cohort could be level 16. -Mattie

Auras

That's a good idea. Another might be some sort of powerful and interesting aura. Like a permanent magic circle against chaos centered on the player or something. --Msallen

I was going to propose the Aura of Menace that archons get, but it had wording in there about removing the effect if they were hit by an attack. While good, I figured this wouldn't be as universally handy as Wings might be. Still some sort of circle/aura thing is a good idea, too. -Mattie

Permanency Ability

My idea was a sort of slotted-permanency spell mechanic, where you could swap out X spell levels worth of eligible spells on yourself that have a permanent duration, during some ritual that is time consuming but XP free. Where X is, perhaps, your unmodified CHR modifier. -gm

No comments here? -gm

Seemed complicated at first read, and I'm still trying to understand it. I'm not sure what qualifies as an eligible spell (since permanency is typically arcane). So if I had +4 CHR bonus I could give up a 4th level spell slot to give myself Divine Power permanently? If not, do you have any other example? Can you repeat the ritual to switch spells? -Mattie

Ok, so let's take a guy with 22 CHR, which is a +6 modifier. That would give him 6 spell levels worth of spells he can use a ritual to make affect himself with permanent duration. So, maybe Bull's Strength (2), Bear's Endurance (2), and Eagle's Splendor (2). Or, sanctuary (1), Deathwatch (1) and Freedom of Movement (4). These spells would be able to be swapped out via some ritual. I'm sure this is a very messy way of demonstrating something you could probably explain much more simply, but is the concept more clear now? -gm

Yeah, the concept is much clearer. Thanks for clarifying. As a PC, I love it. From a GM perspective, I think it's a little bent power-wise. For example, with a 20 CHA, I can pick Righteous Might (2x size, +4 str, +2 con, +2 AC, DR 9/evil) which (to me) is much better than their 20th level ability and you can alter it. If we really want to avoid risking unbalancing the class, it would be safer to aim for the same general level of power. So something in the line of Permanancy + Fly/Wiz3 (and arguably AlterSelf/Wiz2). Or maybe the abilities of a magic item similar to Wings of Flight in the 40k-60k value range. This ability (to me) feels pretty far above that level of power. As a player, it's awesome and I'd love to use it. But I feel it makes Favored Soul more powerful than originally intended (but that might be the intention). -Mattie

Indeed, putting it that way CHMOD in spell levels is waaaay too good, but that doesn't mean some sort of slotable permenancy option couldn't be tinkered into working. No one is playing a FS, nor will there be one in the game any time soon, nor will one reach level 17 pretty much ever, so we're still in the spitballin' part of our program. A fixed number of spell levels (3?), or even just one slot? Anyway, I just hate hate hate hate fucking wings. -gm

Another idea almost identical to this, you could allow them to 1/day spontaneously enhance 1 spell of 4th level or lower to act as if enhanced by the Persistent Spell metamagic feat. -Mattie

Any more thoughts on the above? -Mattie

Deathless

Alt: Deathless : The sunrise/sunset (depending on alignment) after you are killed, you rise again as if by a raise dead spell, suffering all related losses. You still age normally, and will still die when your maximum age is reached.

I have an issue with this one, but its... well... difficult to classify I guess. Player death generally only happens when a) the player is generally ok with it (ie. won't quit) and b) it seems like it will drive the story in a good way. At least with my experience in our games, players don't generally die in the middle of insignificant fights--they die in high risk situations where they can at least go out with some bang. If its a frivolous death, I suspect there are some fudged die rolls and second chances that usually prevent it. Not to say GM isn't mean and harsh--just that dieing because you failed a low DC save on a trap that was put in a hall to be a speedbump doesn't tell a good story, and that's really what its all about.

I have an issue with this line of thought and I don't agree with it and, if taken to the extreme, is going to end up getting someone killed. It's not *all* about the story, it's *all* about fun and the game. If *all* I cared about was the story, I'd go back to being a writer. I think this PoV ends up bringing with it essentially the same mindset as Freddie and Fannie - "Well, we've got an implicit guarantee of health, so lets undevalue risk!"

I think part of your feeling that was is because, frankly, we never get beyond 10th or 12th level very often in ANY of our games, which is right about the time THAT particular idea (death is rare and unlikely) goes out the window. LE is throwing PKs around like crazy, and soon you guys will start facing them on your own. By the time you hit level 18, things like Power Word Kill, Finger of Death, et al. are amazingly, amazingly prevalent.

Also, you'll notice I don't *believe* in "insignificant fights," in that every fight is potentially lethal. I don't subscribe to the WotC/D&D standard dungeon crawl model of fighting a bunch of weenies then going to rest.

At the end of the day, I don't believe that "it's all about the story" is a valid point of view, and I'm the storyteller. Like all collaborative activities, everyone defines "what it's about" a different way.

Also, as an aside, I think player death even in minor combats "moves the story forward" because the "story" is interactive and morphic and continues apace if no one dies or if everyone does. Also, the effect of a player death on the party automatically has storyline significance-gm

What this really tells me is that some people are expecting me to bail them out. If all we care about is interactive storytelling, let's break out the Once Upon a Time cards. -gm

Don't get your panties in a wad--you've killed plenty of charachters, and all of us know that you would kill ours. Fact is, there have been times where our players died and it was awesome, and times where they seemed like they were going to die and it would have been lame. And in each case I suspect it was you more than the dice that made the right decision on what would have been the most fun.

Regardless of the fact that it was only a side-note in your rant, I'm completely convinced by the argument about levels 10-12 representing a turning point in the game. I have little to no experience with that level of play, and I agree based on the examples that the player relationship with death changes in a way that makes this ability a lot more functional that I thought. --Msallen

Given that, this ability has pretty limited value. Chances are good that all that will really happen is the player will not get the second chances that they would normally have got, and they will come back to life. It could be a cool story moment, but chances are good that it will not be. In which case, this ability should read: at some point in the future, you will die for some silly reason that you probably would't have died from if you didn't have this ability, and your resurrection will be somewhat more flavorful. It'll sort of end up like Anise's death, which was fine for a 1st level item power, but seems weak for a 17th level class ability. --Msallen

As above. Flawed premises lead to highly flawed presumptions. You are cogs in the wheel, and while you are stars of your own stories, you are not the stars of THE story. You are characters like all the rest. Also, I don't care if people quit after they die, and I've never really cared if people got pissed at me. -gm

Heh, I, on the otherhand, see Deathless as like 40x cooler (brokener) than growing wings in this world. Especially since I thought Raise Dead was completely impossible. With this ability, I almost want to kill off Mose so I can start over to be a Favored Soul. They're already pretty hard to kill with their good saving throws, healing potential, resistances, and good combatness. Now they get high enough and they're pretty unstoppable. Walking around with a Raise Dead Contingency spell on them... The only issue I see with Deathless is that it feels more powerful than the DR 10/silver they get at 20th level. -Mattie

I don't know, DR 10/anything is phenomenal, and something like silver is not something most people carry around unless they're planning on for it. The Barbarian DR by that point is 5/-, so I think twice the damage reduction for a relatively rare metal is pretty sweet. I'd say evil Favoreds have it worse on account of Cold Iron being a lot more common as a weapon type. -gm

There's some pretty indirect balancing here I've already considered, namely that you lose a level every time you're rezed, so if you use it too much too fast, you're dead without recourse. Or, if you're dead from some persistent disease you'e also dead because you'll rez/die a couple of times until you fall below a level to use the ability. So, there is that bit of balance. Even if I always give the character the choice to lose 2 con instead of the level, which I lean toward if only for streamlining play purposes, eventually someone will get rezed to the point of having a base con of zero and be unrezable. Also: some spells, like disintegrate, kill without even the option for raising. -gm

Also, the only character who even has a shot of seeing level 17 is LE, I'd wager. And that's only because she has Hax, and by 17 there is no guarantee she's on your side anyway depending on that shadow xp. -gm

Heh, we might have an enemy that is level 17 someday, though. :) And my aim is certainly to TRY to get Mose to 17th (even if it's impossible and/or requires OOC achievements). I primarily see the Deathless ability as super-powerful in your world (and thus better than DR 10/metal) because I've come to expect that raising anything from the dead is pretty much impossible. Yet, if that doesn't seem overpowered to you then I'll assume it's due to my limited understanding of the "Veil", and the forces at work here. -Mattie

Well, I'm worried about balancing it in rules terms. Don't worry about the metaphysics of it - Level 17 is high enough that almost no one ever gets there, and favored soul is a class that virtually doesn't exist among Alexandrians. -gm

Airwalk + Waterwalk

A "messiah" sort of alternative to Wings would be at-will Airwalk and/or Waterwalk. -Mattie

Hmm. This is cute, too. I like it. -gm

Spell Resistance

To go with their defensive nature, perhaps Spell Resistance: 30? (SR29 is what it would be if they cast the spell on themselves permanently at 17th level.) -Mattie

Picking up some SR wouldn't be out of the question, but 30 seems awfully high. That's only two below a great wyrm red dragon. -gm

30 is pretty high, indeed. It would have been SR29 with slotted permanency at 5th level, though, assuming they got full caster level. Any real SR would be cool in my book, though. Another idea related to this below. -Mattie

Divine Luck?

Luck like the Luck blade gives you: Its possessor also gains the power of good fortune, usable once per day. This extraordinary ability allows its possessor to reroll one roll that she just made. She must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Seems universally handy and pretty appropriate for a Favored Soul (but is definitely not nearly as powerful/cool as Deathless).

Eh, I've seen that one and I think it's more of a domain scaled power than a 17th level closer. -gm

Agreed. It's nice to back out of some horribly shitty rolls, but doesn't have any real pizazz. -Slitherrr

Fair enough. I'll leave this here because I think any sort of powerful-enough "divine luck" thing would be a really cool option to consider. -Mattie

Spell Turning

Once per day, enable Spell Turning (per the spell) as a standard action. -Mattie

Divine Casters of the world

So, Mainland has Clerics, and Petara has Favored Souls as befitting their more decentralized religion. Druids and rangers are the sole divine casters among the Sidhe, and never become favored souls, although both Druids and Favored Souls are rare but not unheard of among the Halflings. -gm