Talk:Language
Here are some proposed mechanics for related languages:
Attempting to get a message across when speakers understand related languages depends on the complexity of the message, and the closeness of the linguistic relation. An Intelligence (Sense Motive is a possibility here... If that is used, the DCs should be higher) roll is made against the DC given in the table. Failure by 4 or less indicates that some essential point is lost in conveying the message, but the general idea is gotten across. Failure by 5-10 means that some essential point is MIS-understood, and false information is conveyed. Failure by 11 or more means that no information is conveyed.
| Dialects | Closely Related | Related | Distantly Related | Not Related | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Simple Message | - | 5 | 10 | 20 | 30 |
| Complex Message | 5 | 10 | 20 | 30 | 40 |
This is interesting. Would there be a similar chart for bonuses/penalties for decipher script? -gm
- It's worth looking into, actually, and definitely interesting, especially if distinctions are made between pictographic and phonetic alphabets. -Slitherrr
- Holy cow you just killed a bunch of text.. did you mean to be doing that? -Feantari
- He normally doesn't. He's famous for his simul-edit gaffes. -Slitherrr
- Yes. I am a bull in a china shop. -gm
- He normally doesn't. He's famous for his simul-edit gaffes. -Slitherrr
- Perhaps not related should simply not be possible to roll for? I mean at that point you are probably down to hand gestures and body language which might be better represented with some sort of attribute roll. And, of course, making this rule you then have to have a table for all the languages and their relationships (which would certainly add some fun to figure out, but might overcomplicate things). I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just have a list of dialects or closely related languages for each. You then either have a chance to roll or not, and if you do it is a static sort of DC. All depends on How fond your DM is of big tables to be looking things up in I guess. -Feantari
- Yeah, I think languages unrelated probably should have no chance. Knowing Ancient Greek aids not a whit in learning Linear B, so yeah, I think that DC 30 INT check is just pantomimes and gestures and that sort of First Contact stuff, though. This sort of consideration was, in fact, why I put together the language tree rather than just a bunch of languages. Prime as your stand in for the lost and theoretical Indo-European, The Ubrekti Branch would be your Romance languages, for example.
- Possibly, and that's why the DC is super-high--not worth rolling in most circumstances, but some extraordinary (or magical, although I have no idea what since magic exists that completely nullifies the language question) thing could happen that could make it theoretically possible.-Slitherrr
- Yeah, 20 is not an auto success, but I think someone with a 30 INT, say, might just be smart enough to warrant a roll trying to understand someone jabbering at him in a foreign tongue.
- In general, I would picture that most of the major languages are either distantly related, or not related, and those DCs are firmly outside the realm of possibility in most circumstances. This would only come up if a country had a bunch of languages (like Fresia, assuming abs gives the go-ahead on some development there). -Slitherrr
On that note, one thing worth examining is whether or not magic that allows people to instantly understand any language should be removed. D&D takes great pains to essentially remove language considerations from the equation, whereas this world has a bit more linguistic flavor. That's completely up to GM, though.-Slitherrr
- I've actually softened some on the wizarding language stuff because, on years of reflection, I realized it's not all that broken. I mean, at the earliest levels, you get only the ability to UNDERSTAND, not communicate. Tongues spell does not hit till CR5-6, by which time the character has a respectable enough level of arcane power to make it sensible. I mean, tongues is the same level as fireball and clairvoyance. -gm
- True. My main beef with Comprehend Languages is on the written end, really--researching ancient texts isn't nearly as fun when you can just pop a 1st-level spell and understand everything within (save magically protected scripts, but honestly, is every single interesting bit of historical information going to be hidden behind a Secret Page spell?). If it's spoken, you at least have to have some foreknowledge to prepare. -Slitherrr
- Sounds like editing the spell to work as something like a minor mind read sort of ability might work. You can understand what a person is telling you, but that piece of paper has nothing for you to get at. I'd have to go back through the magic stuff to nail it down to the proper school and all, but changing the approach to how the spell is able to function seems most like what you guys are getting at. -Feantari
- Also true, but comprehend, and I think even tongues, is only for spoken languages. Decipher Script is also good for ciphers, like mr black leather gnome. -gm
- No, comprehend works for reading and speaking (tongues would be silly for reading, of course, since the only difference from Comprehend is that it lets you speak as well as understand). -Slitherrr
- Well, that is some bullshit, right there, but of the variety that has no functional purposes in most games. -gm
- No, comprehend works for reading and speaking (tongues would be silly for reading, of course, since the only difference from Comprehend is that it lets you speak as well as understand). -Slitherrr
- True. My main beef with Comprehend Languages is on the written end, really--researching ancient texts isn't nearly as fun when you can just pop a 1st-level spell and understand everything within (save magically protected scripts, but honestly, is every single interesting bit of historical information going to be hidden behind a Secret Page spell?). If it's spoken, you at least have to have some foreknowledge to prepare. -Slitherrr
- I've actually softened some on the wizarding language stuff because, on years of reflection, I realized it's not all that broken. I mean, at the earliest levels, you get only the ability to UNDERSTAND, not communicate. Tongues spell does not hit till CR5-6, by which time the character has a respectable enough level of arcane power to make it sensible. I mean, tongues is the same level as fireball and clairvoyance. -gm
So, related to above, are we going to go ahead and say that Comprehend Languages doesn't work on written script, or should it stay as it is? It'll leave you more openings for fun-filled ancient research missions! -Slitherrr
Also, I'm going to go ahead and move the above table into the article. We can refine it later if it turns out to be abusable. -Slitherrr
- Yeah, I don't have a problem with that table. I also, actually, don' have much of a problem with it working on written stuff, but since so much work is going into languages, might as well make it for something. -gm
