Difference between revisions of "Talk:Deific Vengeance"

Revision as of 14:55, 19 March 2011

Description

You cry out to your god, enumerating transgressions and crimes of a creature and seek your deity to exact punishment on them. (Their alignment is irrelevant.) The divine might of the angry god exacts this justice in the form of an acute, divine strike on the target. This damage hits unerringly and for 1d6 points per two caster levels (maximum 5d6). For an undead target, the damage is increased to 1d6 points per caster level (max 10d6). Damage is reduced by half upon succeeding a Will saving throw.

Source: Complete Divine, p161 (reworded slightly, but effect is identical)

DM Approved?

This spell, of course, is subject to GM veto, but I figure most stuff from WotC books or Dragon are ok? I want to check because there are also a few (mediocre-to-okay) Druid spells in Complete Divine that we might want to bring, and 1-2 Paladin spells that have their uses, too. -Mattie

Yeah, generally speaking WotC and Dragon are both considered as close to canonical as you can get. Mongoose Publishing, Swords and Sorcery, etc. less so. Still, I'd rather you put the spell and stuff on the talk page and leave the actual page blank until spells get approved. I think having players add and suggest is a great, I am just leery of confusing our poor spellcasters with what is and is not yet approved. -gm

Cool, thanks for the clarification on process for DM approval. Counter-proposal: What if we create the pages as normal but we put {{pendingapproval}} template? It would look like this:

Note:

This topic is pending approval and should not be used.

Could we instead post them as a normal spell/feat/class and put that bright red above it? If you reject it, just delete it. The cool thing about this process is that you get this awesome page to reference: Category:Pending Approval -Mattie

Spell Strength

It's an... odd spell on many levels, though, and I can't say I'm a *huge* fan of it. Direct, unerring damage is not, generally, the purview of the cleric class. Will save for half is just a very .... strange.... save. Also, 60 points of max damage against undead from a second level spell doesn't really strike me as all that balanced.

I mean, I think this spell feels *at least* as good as most of the 2nd level sor/wiz damage spells, and that's clearly not so great from a class balance point of view.

I can't disagree with you, but to play devil's advocate: The wording I picked ("unerring") isn't how they wrote it. For the spirit of the spell, see this screenshot for the actual wording that Complete Divine, Spell Compendium, and DDO use. I changed it to avoid copyright, but the original wording seems spiritually good (better for a paladin/judgement spell, IMHO):

So Helen and I love this for flavor. As for damage, it's solid, indeed. I wouldn't put it on par with Sorc/Wiz (searing ray averaging 1d6/level, right?), but it is strong for Cleric which is an exception for most of the added divine content from WotC (probably to boost FS class). Note that undead seem to have stronger will saves than anything else, so it's not going to be the world's best spell against them. Range is really tight, too. -Mattie

So it's here (and because numbers are my thing),

• Scorching ray (level 2 spell) is 1d6 per (level + 1) in groups of four (4d6 at level 3, 8d6 level 7, 12d6 level 11 [max]), at close range, not unerring (ranged touch attack)
• The canonical unerring spell, magic missile, is 1d4+1 per level, at ridiculous range, with no save, but with a hard counter (shield), and is level 1. It's then 2.5 damage per level, compared to 1.75 for deific vengeance against non-undead (3.5 vs those).
• Acid arrow, 2d4 + 1 plus (2d4 + 1) per three levels (up to six), over time, level 2, giving 6.5 + (2.5)/level, with caveats (acid can be neutralized and whatnot).
• Burning sphere, 2d6/level with caveats galore, level 2.

Deific Vengeance doesn't compete too crazily in this sphere. Against anything but undead, it's outclassed pretty easily by magic missile in every respect--range, damage, versatility--except specifically in the case of shield. Against undead, it has the Will save issue mentioned above, but is otherwise better (which falls within the Cleric's wheelhouse). Far be it from me to give any more power to the most OP class in the game, but I think this spell doesn't do that too horribly much. -Slitherrr