Difference between revisions of "Talk:Psionics"
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: Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm | : Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm | ||
:: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] | :: Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --[[User:Msallen|Msallen]] | ||
| + | ::: Eh, I'm the Court of Last Resort, what do I care? My rulings are always sticky. -gm | ||
:: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]] | :: I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the [http://content.screencast.com/users/Mattie/folders/Jing/media/af2e54b0-ab44-4dd3-8651-7c283ea9c441/2011-04-28_1336.png old Psionics Handbook recommendation] of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring ''wish'' level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]] | ||
| + | ::: Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into. | ||
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:: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]] | :: I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm Form of Doom] seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm Remove Fear] would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm Shadow Body] would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/createSound.htm Create Sound] work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm Dimensional Lock] barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -[[User:Mattie|Mattie]] | ||
| + | : Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm | ||
Revision as of 15:59, 28 April 2011
I am hoping that Mattie, who is way more crunch-minded than me (and the one who is going to have to put up with Psionic character or characters) will help me make rules that are more concrete and less hand wavy. Discussion is welcome!
Why get rid of the magic/psionics transparency rule? That's a lot of work and adjuctating on the side of the GM. --Msallen
- Because I don't care and because I want psionics to be different, as it traditionally has been in D&D and in this setting. In terms of metaphysics, there's no reason a nonmagical, personally generated power should effect magic and vice versa. -gm
- Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --Msallen
- Eh, I'm the Court of Last Resort, what do I care? My rulings are always sticky. -gm
- Well, as a world concept, I agree, and since I can't see myself running a 3e game, it doesn't impact me. Mostly I'm just saying I can't imagine wanting to deal with the complication if I was in your shoes, and are you really sure you want to deal with it? --Msallen
- I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring wish level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -Mattie
- Well, there are actually some spells in the XPH that give arcane users some emulated psionics. Also, FWiW, that transparency cuts both ways: a psion is just as helpless dealing with most magical effects which are, honestly, far more common and more likely to be run into.
- I'm okay with Psionics being different overall, but I think if there was a whole lot of persecution and battling going on before in this world, both sides of Magic and Psionics would have come up with some workable tools against each other. I like the old Psionics Handbook recommendation of the weaker Detect Psionics, Negate Magic, etc, sort of spells. Requiring wish level (or killing the manifester) seems like it makes Psionics unbalancingly different. -Mattie
- I'm not sure I like #4 on the Psionics page either. For example, psionic freedom of movement seems like it could work fine against hold person, as they seem to specifically act against a status effect (paralysis). I'd also assume an appropriate magical summon could be banished by a psionic banishment. Most of the other things I see interacting don't seem directly opposed but rather act on conditions of the target. Psionic Form of Doom seems to say it's a "mind-affecting fear effect" and I assume Remove Fear would actually work on it based on such specific wording. In addition I think Shadow Body would prevent damage from magical diseases/poisons. The OGL versions of these spells/powers seem to be pretty well worded such that effect opposition would be okay without invalidating "Psionics are different". I think where it gets shadier would be like: can Create Sound work inside a magical Silence spell radius? I.e. stuff that doesn't come up very often. Interestingly, some of the magic spells in d20 actually mention psionics where it might further be confusing, like Dimensional Lock barring psionic teleportation. Just seems like there might not need to be such an insurmountable barrier between the two even if they don't directly mix for dispel/detect/resist/etc... -Mattie
- Yeah, there's some tweaking that goes on here, and a lot of this is fairly tentative stuff. I'd say that Create Sound would not function in silence, no. Because the magic is preventing any noise at all from being created. -gm
