Talk:Elk Rider

I'd like to make any revisions to this before anyone ends up taking it. Specifically the Exceptional Mount ability. I think it should be brought into line with Animal Companion table. Replace the (% OF Owners Hit Die) with additional hit dice that would stack as animal companion levels. It would mean a lot less hit points, but still waaaaay more than - say - [Tenpence|Tenny], who has proved remarkably resiliant. OTOH, it would give things like new feats, skill points, and other goodies to offset. Thoughts? Particularly Fean, if she's tuned into this channel, since I doubt Al has any interest. He's more like to become an Elk than mount one. Err, unless he's in elk form. -gm

He could turn into Elk form, then mount and Elk.

That was the joke I was trying to make. Damn my typo!

BOOM.

Innuendo aside, keeping Tenpence alive has been a dash of luck mixed with a huge helping of Kib trying to make himself more dangerous than his mount (and succeeding in some ways more than others). Mounted Combat helps, but only with Ride ranks (incidentally, I'm guessing the Improved Mounted Archery ex ability overwrites Mounted Archery? Perhaps the first level of this class should give Mounted Archery just to make the progression clear?

"Improved" versions never stack with their mundane counterparts (see also: Skill Focus), but if you think it needs to be explicit we can do that.

Right, and the wording of the two wouldn't allow them to stack anyway. I don't know how closely the standard feat tree should be tracked--the ranger class already has precedent for skipping prereqs, so it probably works as-is. -Slitherrr

Honestly, the % of Elk Rider Hit Dice is unnecessary since the Animal Companion bonus language is already there. You might want to force the Elk Rider to take the mount as animal companion as a condition of taking the class (since Druids and Rangers, strangely enough, can basically change out animal companions at will, even as sorcs and wizards have to go through the "wait a year and a day" bullshit), and then just remove all the extraneous % of HD and natural armor bonus language (and treat the Elk as being on the 5th-or-greater list, but that might be problematic for Anise at the moment). That Elk is the real feature of the class, and so giving it the possibility of sharing stage time with some other companion seems detrimental.

I meant, is it better to have the bonus hit points come in the form of bonus HD or in the form of a bonus equal to a cut of the master's HP?

I think, since the ranger/druid already have the animal companion mechanics, that it might as well build on them. It seems like the simplest path. -Slitherrr

Also, there's a question of mine below this in its own section. I'm guessing the answer is yes, I just was curious.

What is up with the non-standard reflex progression? I think that should be turned into the same as the fort save, especially since it'll still reach the same max.

If the Elk rider has splashed a Druid level, can the "existing divine caster" levels count as Druid? If you got a min/maxer in the party (not in this group, since you could deal with it, but in case some OTHER group wanted to use this class), he could be a 1 Druid/X Ranger, get all the Ranger-like combat bonuses, then get a hefty spell boost when taking Elk Rider, at a relatively small cost (alternatively, Cleric, for a less-synergistic but probably even more powerful splash). This isn't a big deal, and I don't know a good solution for it, it just popped into my head. Maybe make it to "highest existing divine caster level"?

Why would I make this an exception to every other "+1 Caster Level" prestige class?

Works for me. -Slitherrr

Overall, if this class has a problem, it's closer to the side of too powerful than not powerful enough. Amazing Ranger-like combat progression, great animal companion synergies, awesome saves, and the availability of a pretty great animal companion--this is basically a Sidhe love-song. -Slitherrr

Hm. ok.

Animal Companion Level Stacking

So Elk Rider levels count Druid-style, right? I.e., a 3/5/2 Druid/Ranger/Elk Rider would have 3 + (5/2 round down = 2) + 2 = 7 animal-companion-counting levels? -Slitherrr

That is so.

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Stuff cleared here. Slitherrr 09:32, 20 February 2011 (EST)

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Elk Stats hidden 08:47, 12 November 2010 (EST)

Dire Elk Huge Animal 12d8+60 (114 hp) +0 50 ft 15 (-2 size, +7 natural) touch 8 ff 15 slam +14 melee and 2 hooves +9 melee, or gore +14 melee slam 2d6+7, hoof 2d4+3, gore 2d8+10 10ft by 20ft/10 ft trample 2d8+10 low light vision, scent fort +13, ref +8, will +8 str 24 dex 11 con 20 int 2 wis 11 cha 7 listen +6 spot +6 I should be able to get regular Elk stats, too, in a bit here. -Slitherrr Elk (via World of Warcraft Manual of Monsters) Hit Dice: 3d8+9 (22 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class: 14(-lsize,+l Dex,+4natural),touch10,ff 13 Base Att/Grapp: +2/+12 Attack: Hoof +7 Melee (1d6+6) or bite +7 melee (1d8+6) or gore +7 melee (1d8+6) full attack: 2 hooves +7 melee(1d6+6) and bite +2 melee (1d8+3) or gore +2 melee (1d8+3) space/reach: 10ft/5ft special attack: charge special qualities: lowlight vision, scent saves F/R/W: +6/+4/+2 Abilities: str 22, dex 13, con 17, int 2, wis 13, cha 6 skills: listen +6 spot +6 feats: alertness, endurance environment: cold and temperate forest, hill and mountains organization: solitary bull, bachelor group (2-8 bulls) or herd (4-400 cows plus 100% young) challenge rating: 1 treasure: none alignment: neutral advancement: 4-10 HD (Large) Level Adjustment: -- By the way, the way this compares to the Heavy Warhorse: 4 more Str (so 2 more damage on his attacks) Add special attack: Charge Add attack: Gore (with the same damage and bonus as bite, and substitutable for it on a full attack, so I don't know why. Maybe in case he gets tetanus?) Remove feat: Run Add feat: Alertness 1 less HD, which means 1 less base attack and 1 less each of Fort and Ref saves Everything else is the same, or doesn't matter. -Slitherrr