Talk:Grrrllwofrowffgrr

Alright, you people who know the rules better than I do, I have a couple of questions. The brown bear has a base attack of +4 and Str of 27 (+8), but it's standard claw attack roll is only +11. Why not +12 (base attack+strength bonus)? I'm working on figuring out Girl's bonuses, etc. He's got 8 HD (2 more than a normal brown bear because of animal companion bonuses), and the animal companion page says it has the same base attack as a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD. So, that's +6/+1. Girl's strength is 28 (+9), so it seems like his attack roll should be +15/+10. Is this right??

Second question involves saving throws for (wait for it) ... brown bears. The animal companion page says "An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD)." It doesn't specify character class, so I assumed druid. An 8th level druid's reflex save is +2. Add the bear's dex bonus (+2. Girl has a 14 dex instead of 13 cuz he's awesome) to get +4. This is all well and good, but the standard non-animal-companion reflex save for a brown bear is +6. Fortitude comes out better (+6 for 8th level druid, +4 for bear's con), but it seems wrong that his reflex save would be lower than a standard bear's. Am I doing something wrong in figuring this? If not, Matt, I need a DM ruling. Reflex save +4 or +6?

And one more thing (not a rules question). Girl has the special quality scent. This will be helpful any time he's on watch. :)

-- from email

And some extra, not from email:

• Standard brown bears have 51 hp (6d8+24). Ignoring the con bonus, that comes out to 27 for the 6d8, which is 4.5 per hid die. Since Girl is an 8 HD brown bear, I figured his hp as 8 * 4.5 + 32 = 60. Is this a reasonable way to figure HP?

• Skill points: One per level for a bear? Int is 2, which is a -4 modifier, but there's a minimum of 1 skill point per level, right? I would apply them based on the bear's HD, which is currently 8 (two above a standard bear), so I should (I think) have two skill points to dole out.

• Feats: Gain them as a druid does, but base them on HD? So, one at 3rd, one at 6th, one at 9th, etc?

There are a bunch of complicated rules, but I don't think you'll be gaining extra feats and stuff.

Also, be aware that he gets almost NO special abilities.

Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character’s druid level were lower than it actually is. Subtract the value indicated in the appropriate list header from the character’s druid level and compare the result with the druid level entry on the table to determine the animal companion’s powers. (If this adjustment would reduce the druid’s effective level to 0 or lower, she can’t have that animal as a companion.)

So it gets only gets abilities based on Druid Level - 6. So this moots a lot of the advancement talk, as a 2nd level druid companion doesn't get any of that stuff.

Trav/Al: Yeah, I'm not really worried about the special abilities from the "Alternative Animal Companion" table. He's got Link, Share Spells, and Evasion. But under the "Bonus HD" section of "Animal Companion Basics," it says:

Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

I guess my question is: What's "normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice?"

"Normal for advancing a monster's hit dice" is take whatever he has at normal HD, then add to it in the progression. If you took, say, a black bear, it'd be 3 HD + 2, S D C I N C of 19+1 13+1 15 2 12 6, BAB of +3 (the BaB of a 5 HD monster, which, helpfully enough, is the BaB of a 5th-level Druid), two extra skill points, normal bear abilities (no feats, feats aren't gained for HD increase, only actual levels), AC of 16 (1 more from DEX bonus, 2 more from Natural AC bonus), link, share spells, evasion, and an attack list that looks like "2 claws +8 (6 + 1 from ST + 1 from BaB) melee (1d4+5) and bite +3 melee (1d6+3)

Oh, and the black bear's saves would be +6, +6, +2 (diff between 3 HD and 5 HD is +1/+1/+0, then there's +1 to Ref for DX bonus). This is because the brown bear's strong saves are Ref and Fort, and his weak save is Will, which you can determine by taking current saves, subtracting bonuses from stats and whatnot, and comparing what's left to the strong/weak progressions on a character class for that HD. In this case, +5 - 2 = 3, +4 - 1 = 3 , +2 - 1 = 1. Strong saves at 3 HD are 3, weak saves at 3 HD are 1. -Slitherrr

In your case, Druid 8 taking brown bear (level minus 6, not 3 as you seem to think above), gives the 1st-2nd level abilities on the Animal Companion Basics chart (+0 bonus HD, +0 AC, +0 ST/DX, 1 bonus trick, link, share spells). In other words, it's a brown bear with an extra trick and an empathic link, and nothing else. -Slitherrr

Start Travis Al's a level 9 druid now, so level-6 makes the bear's class level 3. So 1st-5th level abilities are +2 HD, +2 AC, ST/DX +1, 2 bonus tricks, link, share spells, and evasion. So my brown bear would be 8 HD; SDCINC 27+1, 13+1, 19, 2, 12, 6; BaB of an 8 HD monster (which is 6?); two extra skill points; normal bear abilities; no feats (but why do the rules say "An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice"??); AC of 18 (normal brown bear is 15); link, share spells, and evasion; and attacks (assuming I'm right about BaB of 6) "2 claws+14 (+9 from ST, -1 for size) with damage 1d8+9 each and bite+8 with damage 2d6+4. Saves would be base of Ref +6, Fort +6, Will +2, then add Dex bonus+2, Con bonus +3, Wis bonus +1 to get Ref 8, Fort 9, Will 3. Is that right? My 8 HD brown bear companion would be a lot like a regular polar bear, but with +1 ST/DX, etc.

Thanks for the help. End Travis

I figured you were level 9 from the way you calculated things, but when in doubt, I accept the character sheet here as canon.

Your stuff is mostly correct. Auditing (and refreshing my memory from here), I get this:

• Bite is actually +9 (primary attack - 5), damage 2d6+4 (looks like this bonus is half-strength, but I can't find a rule to cite, even in the natural weapons entry). If Grrl only bites in a round, his bite is actually at +14, because it'll be treated as a primary (this will probably never come up).
• Full attack will thus be 2 claws +14 melee(1d8+9) bite +9 melee(2d6+4) (unfortunately, no extra attacks at high BaB for natural weapons)
• I was completely wrong about feats (see above link). Grrl will get a feat at 9 HD. The GM will probably want to limit it to certain feats to prevent stupidity.

Yeah. I believe they are limited to something like General, Fighter, and Animal feats. I do believe he already has one in mind. -gm

• Con is actually +4, making saves F/R/W: +10/+8/+3.
• Also, grapple is +17 (combine this with Improved Grab to make for very sad opponents)

Let me know if any of that looks wrong. -Slitherrr

Bite attacks do have 1/2 strength rule. I cannot remember the cite, but I know it is so. -gm

• Al just went up to level 9 at the end of last game, so no worries about missing that. I don't know if I've ever updated the character sheet on the wiki.

Nope. More Man Behind the Curtain work. That's why it's never up to date. -gm

• From the link you gave, under "Damage," it says "If it has more than a single attack then it adds its Strength bonus to damage rolls for the primary attack and ½ its Strength bonus to all secondary attacks." Bite is the secondary attack, so half STR is 4 (4.5 rounded down), so BaB of 6+4, -1 for size, so +9, as you say.

Watch out, here. The damage is right (and thank you for tracking that down), but your attack roll comes from 6 + 9 - 5, not 6 + 4 (the OTHER rule about secondary attacks). Same result, but different derivation that'll matter at later levels. -Slitherrr

• Right about the Con bonus. Misread the table.
• For grapple, bonus is base attack bonus + strength modifier + special size modifier, so 6 (BaB) + 9 (Str) +4 (special size modifier from the Grapple page). So, +19, and opponents are even sadder?

Yeah, I meant 19, added in the wrong thing. Hooray! -Slitherrr

--Travis

RE: Hit dice and AC--The bear gets a -1 to hit and AC because of his size (Large). I've attached a reference. --Msallen

Ah, indeed. Thanks. --Travis

This is why Slitherrr gets to take over when I die. -gm

Eyesight

How does a bear with one eye get a +7 to spot? :)

I will happily trade out inherent bonus to spot for an HP bonus on a 1:1 basis, up to a -4 penalty on spot. One time offer only. -gm

I googled this and the internets suggest that one-eye should probably get you a -2 to spot (but I couldn't find a real cite). I think a 1:1 trade is much cooler, though. From a flavor perspective, blind-fight would be a cool feat, too. --Msallen

He does have a feat to choose next level! -Slitherrr

Well, in 3 levels. The bear's class level is my level-6 (currently 9-6=3). He gets his next round of increases at class level 6 (when I'm level 12), at which point he gets two more bonus HD (taking him to 10 total), at which point I'll probably be choosing Improved Natural Attack as his next feat. --Travis

Right, I was remembering my calculation when I thought you were level 8, and hadn't mentally readjusted myself. -66.207.91.56