Talk:Gunthabairhts Andaila Audafuns Ahtafriths-Liudabadws' Character Sheet (Pathfinder)

Rebuild ideas

• Slayer makes sense for flavor and provides more combat ability, but loses skills. Vanguard archetype for super-scout and team assistance.
  • High Dex, High Perception, High Initiative makes for a great scout who is rarely caught off guard. The free teamwork feat and ability to give it to everyone at level 2 is pretty amazing. --Bartley (talk) 11:44, 9 February 2016 (EST)

Rules and Rulings

This is a pretty damn ridiculous build, but if he somehow manages to survive to level 9 he'll be impressive: multiple arms wielding weapons that get weapon focus, arcane pool, spellstrike, sneak attack, can be thrown 20', or get dex bonus to damage in melee. Levels 3-5 will be tough in combat as he'll not be able to do much damage if denied sneak attack, and it won't take much damage to kill him, but he'll have a very wide range of skills and powers.--Bartley (talk) 05:32, 7 February 2016 (EST)

Is it possible to do this without an Unchained build? I'm averse to Unchained classes outside of a specific Unchained or Mythic campaign. -gm

Also - does he have two rogue archtypes? Is that allowed? I don't think that's allowed. -gm

Unchained Rogue isn't changed much, but the finesse training to allow dex to damage are really awesome and about the only way this build will do any melee damage. My understanding is that multiple archetypes are allowed as long as the don't modify the same features. Scout and Counterfeit Mage work together, but others don't.--Bartley (talk) 11:50, 8 February 2016 (EST)

characters may take more than one archetype as long as they meet the requirements. src--Bartley (talk) 11:52, 8 February 2016 (EST)

The finesse training is the only aspect I really want. I guess I could just get finesse as a feat and use and estoc or something which actually would do more damage though that would lose the blocking and throwing from the deer horn knife.--Bartley (talk) 14:29, 8 February 2016 (EST)

Yeah, I'm not just really thrilled with Unchained in general. My own take is that it's like a re-envisioning of a lot of the rules and mechanics, "Unearthed Arcana" style as opposed to a "rules supplement" that can just be added onto the base canon. In other words, I view "Unchained" as I do "Mythic" - a set of rules and systems that is mutually exclusive from Vanilla Pathfinder. The archtype thing is pretty crazy, though! Paizo has seriously lost their way, IMHO, and have already bloated and fucked up Pathfinder to a level that it took TSR decades to achieve. The game won't launch for awhile, I expect, so plenty of time to find a workable workaround. -gm

Allowable 3rd party feat? Deadly Agility or house-rule fencing grace to work with other piercing weapons with which one has weapon focus? --Bartley (talk) 17:33, 8 February 2016 (EST)

Like, not to harp, but I can't help you didn't *also* choose the Unchained Summoner, because it's demonstrably worse. So having a menu of a million insane classes and archtypes is a thing I am finding wearying. I'm just really displeased with Paizo's post-launch release strategy and ranting out it again. When I started the game, the intent was to have as vanilla an experience as possible - strip out all the bloat and madness and refocus on character interaction and story and so it was straight core 3.5 plus some half-sized prestige classes to add some cultural flair. It's always been that way, really. The Alexandrian Ur-Group was Rog/Ftr, Clr, Sor/Ftr, Rgr, Ftr, and Ftr/Rog (npc). I think I can tweak and abuse builds with the best of them, but I'm a big believer that creativity thrives in constraints and that sort of "no holds bard" (sic) creation style rewards gimmickry and foolishness over character and characterization. Not vetoing the build, because it's bonkers in a way that fits well with the CN sensibilities of the Hakani Gnomes and I'm always happy to see more of them enter the game. -gm

I mostly moved to Pathfinder for the marginally more interesting classes, the straight up better skills system, and the "how did WotC not thing of this" Combat Manuever system. Mostly for that last thing since my first parties were and are loaded with grapplers and other manuever folks. Also, honestly, for it's far more diverse and interesting spell library. I've been really distressed to see Paizo open the floodgates and introduce twice the insane optional and variant and optional-variant rules than TSR or WotC ever did. It probably sells product, but I've never been a fan of the extreme level of wonkery that sort of play theory encourages. (see above, heh) -gm

The alternate Gunslinger rules that I like also use the Dex as Damage Bonus mechanic for firearms. Turning it into a feat with respectable entry cost seems reasonable. I mean, for that feat, I think we're obviously talking about melee (and probably thrown) weapons only, so it's not going to land on the ranged specialist where it really *would* be broken. Also, it's spending two feats to get the attack and damage bonuses a strength based fighter gets from birth. And you still don't get 1.5x bonus for two-handers! -gm

If this feat exists, I guess my fun little trident-gladiator gnome magius has to turn into a brutal Sidhe curved-blade magius. He's going to be a monster: maybe even better than my halfling cat summoner. Since Kaylee took most of Book's interesting tricks, I'm in the market for a new character. absalom (talk) 19:00, 8 February 2016 (EST)

Feat and class expansion is certainly a thing in Pathfinder and the unchained ones are an odd mix. As you mentioned, I avoided the summoner one, because currently its changes to eidolon make the synthesist and other archetypes unusable. This is admittedly a wacky build that likely falls into the trap of trying to do too much and not being great at anything besides out of combat skills. The main problem I was trying to find a solution for is being a small-sized dex over strength build that can do more than 1 or 2 points of melee damage with 1 handed weapons and not just be left firing a crossbow or spamming acid splash or wands. Feats exist that allow dex to damage for other weapons like fencing grace for rapier or Slashing Grace or Dervish dance and some weapons like the estoc, dualing sword, and others mention dex to damage as part of their description. There's also the Agile enchantment, but that's pricey, especially given that part of this build was to allow the ability to make his own weapon-focused blades when needed. --Bartley (talk) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (EST)

All that said, I'm completely ok with rebuilding without it. Possibly slayer in place of rogue or perhaps half-catperson-half-rat-person double-estoc TWF build? --Bartley (talk) 22:48, 8 February 2016 (EST)

It's worth noting that there is a balance consideration with Dex to damage--Strength doesn't contribute to defense, normally, so you can "justify" some cost for that. It does put rogues in that terrible situation, though, where if they don't get sneak attack they get dick, but there's a reason that Paizo forums people have considered the rogue class balance to be an in-joke for years. -slitherrr (talk)

That's true. Though, someone going that hard on dexterity is going to give up the strength required for heavy - or possibly even medium - armor. Dexterity bonus is like most easily lost bonus anyway. -gm

Also true, but mithril bp is 15 lbs (7.5 if you're small), and has max dex of +5 (and you still have a decent touch AC with it). But I agree that Pathfinder has probably overbalanced away from Dex, it's part of the reason why rogues are such an in-joke. -slitherrr (talk)

Yeah, I get the balance issue. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about it this much if it wasn't for the low strength penalty. Hard to give up -1 or especially -2 on damage rolls that are only 1d3. I'm gonna reroll this guy up as a Slayer 1st level which will be giving up trap finding, but will still have a high perception and disable device. I could pick it as a slayer talent at Slayer 6 if needed. Leveling goal past 3 will still mostly be alternating slayer and summoner till slayer4/Summoner3 then maybe probably trying to get magus 2 and 3 once I get TWF. --Bartley (talk) 11:34, 9 February 2016 (EST)

Gnome Weapons and Traits, also other items to pick up

Traits:

• sprint - If you do nothing but move in a turn (that is, if you run or use both of your actions in a round to move your speed) and you are in no armor or light armor, you may move an extra 5 feet.
• naturally gifted - Wherever the truth lies, you gain an additional use of one of your gnome magic spell-like abilities each day. This does not always have to be the same spell-like ability—one day you might use dancing lights twice, only to use the additional casting for speak with animals the next day.
• [Ship Aptitude] - You are used to crewing on many of the different types of ships. As a result, you have a knack for quickly determining the weaknesses and strengths of any ship, even ones you've never set foot on before. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Profession (sailor) checks, and Profession (sailor) becomes a class skill for you.

weapons:- Flask Thrower, Shrillshaft Javelin, Crossbow, Underwater, boarding axe